Proposal for Coaching Website by Danny Gormally

[LawrenceCooper]

Proposal for Coaching Website by Danny Gormally

I am interested in setting up a coaching website dedicated to those looking to improve their chess. I am interested to know what forum members think, as they are often the most clued-in.

The website would be called something like "The Elite Chess Coaching School" and the idea of the website would be to offer coaching for all levels, from beginner to budding Grandmaster.

The principle idea of the site would be to organise coaching into one tidy place, so for example lets say someone is wanting to improve but is having difficulty finding suitable guidance, or a Grandmaster was interested offering his services to coaching but didn't know how to organise himself to find students, he could simply register on the website and the idea would be that we would bring the two together.
The site would effectively act as a bridge between two parties.

The idea would also to be to eventually offer coaching weekends that could again cater to people of different and varying levels. We could run something in conjunction with the chess in community in schools programme, for example, and we could also try to do training camps along the lines of the Russian models, that are far beyond anything seen in this country, in terms of the professionalism and guidance that are on offer. These would be more aimed at the "elite" juniors and players, of course.

Coaching prices would start low. I would think around about 10-20 pounds an hour is fairly reasonable for online coaching, anymore and we may struggle to generate much in the way of interest. There would also be the possibility of getting your games annotated, say for around 20-30 a game.

There would also be potential for advertising on the site, possibly connected to chess publishers. Anyone wanting to advertise their chess books on the sites would presumably improve their sales, as the vast majority of the web-site users are looking to improve their chess.

I am aware there are other sites that offer a similar service but I think this is the first time that something like this has been attempted in this country. I would be interested to hear what forum members think, whether or not they think its a good idea.

Danny Gormally.

[Dan O'Dowd]

I for one would be highly interested in such a site. Some thoughts:

1. It would be a good idea if you organise such a site to keep it moderately minimalist. Such sites that I've visited are replete with recommendations and citations and stories of "x improved so and so this much", without getting to the structure of said content or its diffusion to joe public.

2. You'd want a fairly solid model for presenting your coaches. As someone who is now becoming a weak bunny rather than a strong lettuce, heading towards 150/160 ECF, looking at coaches, I'd want to know what a player's specialities were, in any aspect; be they clarity of language (a la Nunn), technical play, positional, etc. I've had partnerships online casually before and found the common faults of my friend-coaches to include poor general communication skills (nothing to do with the chess; you could explain God's algorithm to anyone but if you don't use the right language nobody would understand word 1), overly pushing their style on the player, rather than moulding the player him/herself...

3. With that in mind, perhaps a penpal style could be used for the site. Budding coaches can have profiles, with set sections approvable by the execs, indicating everything useful a student would need to know, and in return students could do the same, or post adverts on themselves seeking coaching in a forum area, making it easier for potential matchups.

4. I've considered arranging coaching but any advert I've seen so far on any site has been rather dry. If you look at chess.com they have a series of articles by various master level players on subjects, which I am sure are designed to provide wide-level (not full though) training, for those willing to put the work in. That's a little lacking in interactivity, but it's a good basis to tailor things from.

[Paul Buswell]

Proposal for Coaching Website by Danny Gormally

I am interested in setting up a coaching website dedicated to those looking to improve their chess. I am interested to know what forum members think, as they are often the most clued-in.

............

Going off topic, I feel there is a much greater need for the ECF to provide training or a course for suitable players to become coaches in the first place, as I believe happens in other sports.

PB

[John Upham]

Going off topic, I feel there is a much greater need for the ECF to provide training or a course for suitable players to become coaches in the first place, as I believe happens in other sports.
PB

Having seen the excellent training materials available from both FIDE and CSC, the ECF could do much worse than by outsourcing a course from either of these organisations.

We have only one FIDE Senior Trainer in ENG and that is Andrew Martin.

[Jonathan Rogers]

Danny

I don't think that a GM has any business in charging just £10 an hour. People who are serious about improving their chess can almost invariably pay more, often much more, for top level coaching. What really matters to such people is whether the GM in question will be any good as a coach. So why not start at £25 an hour but offer the first hour or even two free of charge (ie with no obligation to book further lessons). That will at least make people more inclined to try and see, and one hopes that in the long run the GM makes more (and gets to concentrate on more serious pupils).

If you are concerned about people's ability to pay, why not include on the site some FMs/IMs who would do the job for £15 an hour?

[I myself don't believe that a GM is necessarily a better coach than an IM, in the same way that he may not necessarily be a better writer. He is only necessarily a more successful player. But I wonder whether the very best coaches and the very best writers will be GMs, and anyway people pay for the GM title, it's the way of the chess world].

Also, I think it essential that you show some samples of your work on your site. Why not annotate three games, one played by a bunny, one by a 150, and one by 180, on your site? And/or if you have moderate technical skills, show a coaching session with a real pupil (or again - one junior pupil, one mature pupil) if he or she agrees. This could be done for each person offering services via your site.

I would also suggest that you make it a dedicated coaching site, eg only get involved in promoting chess books that are relevant to self-improvement or coaching.

The long-term future plans can wait. If you have a serviceable website, just find another couple of coaches, start it up and see what happens!

[Paul Sanders]

I myself don't believe that a GM is necessarily a better coach than an IM, in the same way that he may not necessarily be a better writer.

http://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=4101235

He's done all right for himself without a G.

My business head tells me that anyone looking at this as a commercial venture would need to decide whether there is a demand problem (i.e. not enough at a price worth getting out of bed for) or a co-ordination problem (the right sellers and buyers don't manage to bump into each other at the right time). I suspect that the chess market is actually quite complex, so you might need to produce a bundle of goods and services to get enough customers all feeling they have got good value out of a deal.

[Jonathan Rogers]

I myself don't believe that a GM is necessarily a better coach than an IM, in the same way that he may not necessarily be a better writer.

http://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=4101235

He's done all right for himself without a G..

I'm reading him at the moment and I actually thought he was a GM when I speculated that the very best coaches/writers are probably GMs!

[Roger de Coverly]

or a co-ordination problem (the right sellers and buyers don't manage to bump into each other at the right time).

Forum experience, admittedly not a unbiased sample, suggests there are players frustrated at losing games all the time. Whilst the forum is always willing to pontificate, the range of opinions expressed is probably confusing to novice players. In some ways it's very simple, play good moves. But how is a move identified as "good" or "bad"? Much elementary advice, "Knights before Bishops", "don't move pieces more than once" is so full of exceptions as to be misleadingly dangerous if treated as a "law".

[Paul Sanders]

Whilst the forum is always willing to pontificate, the range of opinions expressed is probably confusing to novice players.

This suggests a 'forum filter' which denied access to pontificators based on your rating would be a valuable part of a bundle of chess services.

I wonder what an appropriate rating might be to get access to the Sniper...

[Jonathan Rogers]

That - the understanding that there are very few universal truths in chess and that virtually all principles are subject to considering the exact position - is an important challenge for modern day coaches. I remember coaching adults at a training weekend organised by Danny Kopec some fourteen years ago (actually, I say adults but I think Ben was there too!) and I showed them a reasonably dynamic game of my own and they kept wanting to take back my moves to defend my weaknesses, or to stop me from creating weaknesses, even though the position clearly demanded positive action on my part.

[Colin Patterson]

It's crucial that such a venture identifies gifted coaches in the first instance. Simply matching those pros who are 'up for it' with keen students may not be enough to guarantee repeat business and commercial success.

Namewise, 'Academy' might be better than 'School'. Kids will be bored with the notion of going to school.

[LawrenceCooper]

Hi,

Thanks again for all your feedback, I find these comments very useful as I have a business meeting tomorrow to discuss the possibility of this website and now I have something to take to the table.

I was discussing this with Yelena Dembo earlier and she seems to be doing very well, according to her she has about 20-25 regular students online and is making at least 2,000 euros a month just from online coaching. So clearly there is a market out there for it if it's done properly.

Of course one possible drawback of the site could be is that if we post too many people up there as possible coaches, then we all end up fighting over the same clients and there isn't enough business to go around. But ultimately you get out what you put in, if you are prepared to work hard I don't see that there should be a danger of work drying up.

Also one of the idea of this sites is to promote one to one coaching as well as online coaching, so we can presumably match coaches with people wanting chess coaching in their local area. I think this is one of the problems people have, is that often they would like coaching but are unsure how to go about it/ who is available in their region, as Dan points out. The purpose of this site will be to clear up any confusion in this area.

As for the issue of fees, I completely agree that a Grandmaster should not charge too little. around 20-25 pounds an hour seems quite reasonable for a player of 2500 level, more if you are doing the coaching face to face. However pricing is clearly an important issue, because if you charge too much than there is a danger that you are sat around kicking your heels, but at the same time if you charge too low then you are not doing yourself justice. I noticed there was a guy online who was charging 5 dollars an hour, which to me seemed somewhat ridiculous.

Personally I am often myself a little bit sceptical about coaching and what it offers. The reason for this is I think theres too much of an industry thats built up that says if you do A or B then C will naturally occurr, when in reality if takes an awful lot of hard work to improve. There are no real short-cuts in chess. I think coaching should be first and foremost a guide, not a sermon, and that students should develop the ability to question anything that they hear, and learn to form their own opinions.

Its a bit like what Jonathon was saying about how he was showing a dynamic game and they are trying to tell him how he should play defensively. I think spontaneity, and the fact that you trust your own mind above anything else, is by far the most important thing and theres a danger that can be coached out of you. A lot of the really strong players in this country, like Adams, Short etc had very little coaching when they were younger.

However I also think it depends a lot on the person and theres certainly room, indeed a need, for the sort of professional guidance that we see in Russia and the most successful chess countries. That is what I will be seeking to do if I can get this website off the ground, to try to branch out into training weekends that really try to seriously improve players in a way that is rarely seen in this country.

Anyway again thanks for all your thoughts!

Danny.

[Paolo Casaschi]

Proposal for Coaching Website by Danny Gormally

I am interested in setting up a coaching website dedicated to those looking to improve their chess. I am interested to know what forum members think, as they are often the most clued-in.

I have the impression the issue with the "chess coaching market" is a supply (of coaches) that vastly exceeds the demand (from players looking for a coach).

Then the question is: the (few) players that are looking for a coach, how do they pick one among the available ones?

Strong players, 2100 Elo and above, would probably personally know someone they could ask, or someone that knows someone. What better than a personal reference? I doubt your website would attract interest with those kind of people.

For everybody else, it's a problem of credibility: as you say there are many offers available, probably posting a request on this forum would get enough offers to choose from. What would make your website more attractive or trustworthy than any other option?

If I had (realistic) chess coaching ambitions, rather than opening yet another new anonymous website, I'd try to get some kind of endorsement by someone that the average amateur chess player already trusts or buys from.
If you search this site someone suggested an endorsement mechanisms for the ECF to "bless" coaches (it was suggested as a way to avoid scammers). That would probably work, especially with juniors.
Alternatively, look at reputable website that chess players are familiar with: if you could sell your coaching lessons through ChessBase for instance, that would get you business for sure. I'm surprised they dont do that already: I believe that on their server they allow coaches to sell their lessons, but ChessBase themselves I dont think sells coaching time yet. Next to a software or a DVD, they could sell "Danny Gormally's vouchers" for 1h coaching, face to face or via skype.
Alternatively the chess shop of Malcom Pain could be a good channel. Your customers could go their web shop looking for a book on the French defense and finally decide instead to buy three hours with Danny Gormally explaining the French defense. Of course you'd need to leave a cut to the shop, but I'm sure you'd be busier as a coach.