OTB Freestyle / Fischer Random / Chess 960 in the UK

[Matt George]

Hi, posting here on behalf of FRCUK (https://fischerrandomchess.org.uk), an organization a few of us set up last year with the aim of promoting Freestyle / Fischer Random / Chess 960 in the UK. You'll find short bios on the website. We've organised and sponsored a few tournaments in the last 12 months and are in the process of planning a few more. With this in mind we have put together a short survey (takes less than a minute!) which we’d be grateful if people could take and circulate. Please find it here: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/Y8SDVJZ.

Please also feel free to reply to this thread with any wider comments about Chess 960 and your views on if and how it could gain popularity in the UK.

Many thanks,
Ed, Matt, Tom and Vagelis

[Roland Kensdale]

Slight tangent. Watched a video of the players in the 'freestyle' GOAT tournament (https://youtu.be/eU_oCJUthN0?si=pAgid7Wm-HnPJ6jw), there seemed a few questions about castling (I couldn't follow all the comments), suggesting even these players were not 100% clear on every aspect of the rules concerning castling. Good they clarified before the tournament, but I would have expected the castling rules to be fully understood by players at this level before they reached the venue. I may be getting the wrong impression just from an interested discussion.

In Carlsen's decisive game in the final against Caruana, the latter could and should have castled on his first move to defend the pawn on b7, instead playing ... c6 and only castling after White had done so. I wonder if he just didn't consider the move as it is so different to standard castling. Perhaps I'm seeing Caruana as if he were someone with my limited abilities. (Video of the game with Danny King's analysis: https://youtu.be/i_ENPaOl-mI?si=WZBWGS7s_zf2CyJh).

From the first video I learned queenside castling is called 'c-side castling' (kingside castling is 'g-side castling'). I used to do that at the beach with a bucket and spade many years ago.

[Roger de Coverly]

In Carlsen's decisive game in the final against Caruana, the latter could and should have castled on his first move to defend the pawn on b7, instead playing ... c6 and only castling after White had done so.

I think this is a disadvantage of Chess 960. There appear to be positions where one or other player can immediately lose or at best have a serious disadvantage in the first handful of moves. If you really took it seriously, how difficult would it be to remember all the traps and snares in most or all of the 960?

[Paul Habershon]

Times report today. The headline made me expect a racial discussion but thankfully no.

Move to make chess less black and white
Rhys Blakely - Science Editor
Despite centuries of chess players battling to outwit one another, the starting formation of pawns, rooks, knights, bishops, queens and kings has barely been questioned since the Renaissance.

However, new analysis has suggested that the game, venerable though it may be, is not perfectly designed and that a few small tweaks could make it fairer and perhaps more interesting.

The research focuses on a variant known as Chess960, also sometimes called Fischer Random chess. The idea, proposed in the 1990s by the former world champion Bobby Fischer, is simple. All the usual rules are unchanged, but the positions of the pieces on the back row are randomly determined before each game.

There are a few constraints. The bishops must start on opposite-coloured squares and the king must be placed between the rooks so that castling (when the king moves two squares to either side, with the rook moving to the other side of the king) is still possible.

Black and white pieces are arranged the same. There are 960 permissible starting positions, hence the name.

The aim was to reduce the importance of memorised sequences of moves. In standard chess, elite players can recall a huge number of possible openings and often play the first dozen or so moves almost automatically. By randomising the start, Chess960 is designed to make this all but impossible, forcing players to think for themselves from the outset.

The format has grown in popularity.

It is now recognised by the international chess federation and tournaments have attracted leading players, including the former world champion Magnus Carlsen. To many supporters, Chess960 is a purer test of skill.

But according to Marc Barthelemy, a physicist at Paris-Saclay University, any sense of fairness is not straightforward.

After analysing all 960 possible starting positions using the powerful chess program Stockfish, he found that they differed significantly in how demanding they are to play.

“Not all positions are equivalent,” he told the New Scientist, the magazine that first reported on the study, which is yet to be peer reviewed. White, which moves first, already enjoys a small advantage in standard chess. Barthelemy found that this remained true in almost all Chess960 positions, but the size of that advantage varied. Some starting layouts amplify white’s edge, and a few give black a slight advantage.

The study looked at how difficult the early decisions are. If one move is clearly better than the alternatives, the choice is easy. If several moves are almost equally good, the player must think harder. Barthelemy compared the mental burden of various positions, finding some to be especially demanding and others surprisingly simple.

[Roger de Coverly]

The study looked at how difficult the early decisions are. If one move is clearly better than the alternatives, the choice is easy. If several moves are almost equally good, the player must think harder. Barthelemy compared the mental burden of various positions, finding some to be especially demanding and others surprisingly simple.[/i]

A related problem with Chess 960 is that there are some early moves that look plausible but lose quickly. Rather than Chess 960 negating opening theory, a knowledge of some of these possibilities should give those with the knowledge an advantage.

In conventional theory, Stockfish and othe engines have shown us that many moves and ideas are playable, even those condemned by historic theory, apart from the ones like the Kings Gambit it thinks are rubbish.

[Kevin Thurlow]

"the king must be placed between the rooks so that castling (when the king moves two squares to either side, with the rook moving to the other side of the king) is still possible."

That's a bit misleading - in Chess960, the castled king and rook positions are the same as normal chess, e.g. if the set up is Ra1 and c1, Kb1, then 0-0 is Kb1-g1 and Rc1-f1, and 0-0-0 first needs the c1R to move, then Kb1-c1 and Ra1-d1.

It was already known that some starting positions for Chess960 are much better for white. I believe some proper tournaments do avoid using such positions in tournaments, or have double-round to negate the advantage. Chess960 does avoid opening theory to some extent, but the higher-rated players are still likely to score more highly. I don't tend to trouble GMs much in real chess, but in Chess960, I usually get swept aside even more convincingly.

[Roger de Coverly]

in Chess960, the castled king and rook positions are the same as normal chess, e.g. if the set up is Ra1 and c1, Kb1, then 0-0 is Kb1-g1 and Rc1-f1.

Presumably that requires d1, e1 and f1 to be vacant.

I believe 0-0 or 0-0-0 are possible on move 1.Presumably that requires starting positions of Kd1, Rc1 or Kf1, Rg1.

[Kevin Thurlow]

in Chess960, the castled king and rook positions are the same as normal chess, e.g. if the set up is Ra1 and c1, Kb1, then 0-0 is Kb1-g1 and Rc1-f1.

Presumably that requires d1, e1 and f1 to be vacant.

I believe 0-0 or 0-0-0 are possible on move 1.Presumably that requires starting positions of Kd1, Rc1 or Kf1, Rg1.

Yes. But one of Chess960's ideas is that it can be useful to keep the opponent guessing where the king is going.

[Tim Spanton]

How is it possible in 960 for some starting positions to favour Black?

[LawrenceCooper]

How is it possible in 960 for some starting positions to favour Black?

White is in Zugzwang?

[Ian Thompson]

How is it possible in 960 for some starting positions to favour Black?

White is in Zugzwang?

I was going to write that, but then thought better of it. White could be worse in the starting position and have moves that keep the disadvantage at it's current level, so would not be in zugzwang. That's not to say White isn't in zugzwang in some starting positions, just that it may not be the case in all starting positions where White is worse.

[Tim Spanton]

How is it possible in 960 for some starting positions to favour Black?

White is in Zugzwang?

I was going to write that, but then thought better of it. White could be worse in the starting position and have moves that keep the disadvantage at it's current level, so would not be in zugzwang. That's not to say White isn't in zugzwang in some starting positions, just that it may not be the case in all starting positions where White is worse.

Are you seriously suggesting it is possible for White to be worse in any starting position of 960? Can you suggest what such a position could look like?!

[Ian Thompson]

White is in Zugzwang?

I was going to write that, but then thought better of it. White could be worse in the starting position and have moves that keep the disadvantage at it's current level, so would not be in zugzwang. That's not to say White isn't in zugzwang in some starting positions, just that it may not be the case in all starting positions where White is worse.

Are you seriously suggesting it is possible for White to be worse in any starting position of 960? Can you suggest what such a position could look like?!

No. I'm assuming that Stockfish's assessment that that is the case is correct.

[Tim Spanton]

I was going to write that, but then thought better of it. White could be worse in the starting position and have moves that keep the disadvantage at it's current level, so would not be in zugzwang. That's not to say White isn't in zugzwang in some starting positions, just that it may not be the case in all starting positions where White is worse.

Are you seriously suggesting it is possible for White to be worse in any starting position of 960? Can you suggest what such a position could look like?!

No. I'm assuming that Stockfish's assessment that that is the case is correct.

Oh, that's interesting - I did not realise Stockfish reckoned White was worse in some starting positions. How reliable such an assessment is, however, is another matter - but certainly food for thought.

[Roger de Coverly]

Oh, that's interesting - I did not realise Stockfish reckoned White was worse in some starting positions. How reliable such an assessment is, however, is another matter - but certainly food for thought.

In normal chess it thinks White is a little worse after 1. e4 e5 2 f4, or at least it does on the settings I run it at.