Nice 74

[Geoff Chandler]

]Fifty Shades of Ray[/i] copy-pastes the BCM article without any correction.

Hi Olimpiù,

Ray copies and pastes a lot of stuff without correction. I've no idea why, it's depressing, needless and exasperating.

But I can relate to that.
Not caring about minor details like have I used this before, it was wrong then and so it will be wrong again.

I've not knowingly done this myself but when I write my next book. (Ray Keene's Best Games - 'The Master of Deception.')
I'll slip in few re-pastes for the extra publicity. There is a funny side to this, you just have shake your head and smile.

I am curious what proportion of sales of Fifty Shades of Ray are to people buying it to look for mistakes!

Hi Paul

Possibly 50%. Book shops are selling it under the counter and in a brown paper bag.
(I'm going to play my part by buying with a bounced cheque.)

Anyone who tries to defend Ray Keene (in the face of all the evidence) does nothing for his reputation, they only damage their own credibility.

Probably me for that one.
There are a few things Ray cannot be defended on because he has been found guilty.
He paid a heavy price for the 'P' word. But he has paid for it.

But no need to keeping dragging him though the mud.
Crack a gag or two about it but that too will get tiresome after a while.

He persists in cut and pasting, so what? nobody is forcing you to read his stuff.
I like him, I can't defend him for past crimes but I will take a stance to say enough is enough.
(what I'll do in future is cut and paste my replies.!)

He is an easy target and he does fight back, Can we not just leave the poor man alone.

Ray Keene's greatest contribution to chess in England has been to supply us with a stream of divisive "incidents" of no consequence whatsoever....etc

Hi Chris,

Too long to fully quote (I need the space for me!) But a very good post.
I'll give a link it: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11701&start=135#p266095

Hmmm.... after all that is appears that Ray is not involved in the spelling of Korchnoi after all.
I demand a recount - surely he has in the past spelt it two or three different ways.
What about Anand? has Ray ever stuck in an extra 'n' in 'Annand' I did that once but I think I got away with it.

[ben.graff]

Interestingly, in Evil-Doer itself, other than the passage I quoted earlier (which is on page 87) Korchnoi is used throughout rather than Kortchnoi. So where does this take us?

1. Korchnoi was his birth name.
2. He used Kortchnoi in the second half of his life. This was on his passport and is now on his grave.
3. It does appear that this was a conscious choice on Kor(t)chnoi's part, that went beyond the differing alphabets and reflected the massive change in his circumstances.
4. The use of Korchnoi in the title and everywhere else in Evil-Doer, certainly shows the strength of convention around this spelling in English in recent years, but the referenced text does tell something of a different story.
5. Pure speculation, but I'm guessing even if the spelling meant something to Kor(t)chnoi, how he was spelt in translation perhaps wasn't of paramount interest to him?

Hard to imagine how any of this has caused confusion over the years!

Sosonko writes, "I knew them both, and although Kortchnoi and Korchnoi were very similar to each other, they were nevertheless not identical. Sometimes they engaged in conflict with one another, while sometimes they argued only to make peace once again and tackle life side by side. Two became one on 6 June 2016, even if the inscription Viktor Kortchnoi on his gravestone in a small Swiss town informs only chess players that here lies a person born with this name and yet born with a different one."

[JustinHorton]

Fifty Shades of Ray copy-pastes the BCM article without any correction.

Hi Olimpiù,

Ray copies and pastes a lot of stuff without correction. I've no idea why

You do know why.

[O.G. Urcan]

Concerning Raymond Keene and plagiarism:

https://keenipedia.com/plagiarism-2

- O.G. Urcan

[Geoff Chandler]

You do know why.

I do?

If I did know then (when?) I do not know now, do you know what I knew then but not know now?

Hi Olimpiù,

I was re-reading, catching up, recently on Edward Winters site regarding 'Copying'

https://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/copying.html

Mr winter closes that piece with, 'Raymond Keene is his own worst enemy in a crowded field'
I agree, he brings all this on himself, and staying with the 'field' I'll make a footballer out of Ray. (Ray of the Rovers!)

The well documented plagiarism is the missed penalty effect in the Keene affair, famous footballers who are remembered
for some good games but it's always a crucial missed penalty that surfaces, Stuart Pearce, Gareth Southgate, Chris Waddle...

Ray will never lose the stigma of plagiarism, that was the instant sending off offence.
The rest of his misdemeanours, that I know of, are professional fouls and a few yellow cards.
He is no longer an international player, he has not been allowed back into the stadium.

Now playing non-league floodlight football, still getting the occasional yellow card for silly fouls but these days
they rarely make the major sports pages and the sending off (plagiarism) is old news, he served his ban.
It is only in the amateur fanzines like 'keenipedia' who still think they rate any mention.
What they will do when Ray hangs up his boots I've no idea.


Edit: (forget to add on.)
Some of us real football fans remember his games and greats goals (and some own goals.)
The missed penalty, we sigh, but have moved on.

[Chris Goodall]

Concerning Raymond Keene and plagiarism:

https://keenipedia.com/plagiarism-2

- O.G. Urcan

He think of great Lobachevsky and he get idea, ha!

Honestly, if you've got a community of people that follow you around annotating your every word, you've won at life, whatever their opinion of you.

Moreover, those of us who learnt a little Russian at school (or elsewhere) know that there is no equivalent of the letter t in the cyrillic spelling of Viktor Lvovich's surname and so would tend to resist the "Kortchnoi" version if we weren't aware that this was his personal choice.

Against that, however, I have to admit that there is no letter T at the start of the cyrillic spelling of the great music composer Tchaikovsky's surname either.

(On the other hand, in M. I. Chigorin's lifetime his surname was variously spelled Tchigorin or Tchigorine or Tschigorin in west European and American sources, I think, but "Chigorin" is now accepted.[)]

We're talking about the letter Ч, no? There isn't necessarily an equivalent of C or H in the Cyrillic spelling either - the whole letter Ч corresponds to the whole sound /tʃ/, but the Czechs would spell that sound Č, the Turks Ç, the Italians sometimes plain C, etc. It's an artifact of the way English has evolved that we add the H, but not the T as the Germans and French do.

As for Dutch TJ and Catalan TX, who knows what they were thinking

Chris Wardle says...

If that was intentional, well played, but I am legally Goodall, my passport says so.

[JustinHorton]

You do know why.

I do?

If I did know then (when?) I do not know now, do you know what I knew then but not know now?

Can I recommend that you write less and read more, you'd do yourself and everybody else a favour

[Chris Goodall]

You do know why.

I do?

If I did know then (when?) I do not know now, do you know what I knew then but not know now?

Can I recommend that you write less and read more, you'd do yourself and everybody else a favour

Speak for yourself, I cried when they deleted Chandler Cornered. When I moved to Edinburgh and dived straight into the chess scene, it was because I knew the characters already from Geoff's writing. Plus, I got a compliment on my tie!

[John Townsend]

Sorry, Chris, "Wardle" was an unintentional slip. I've changed it now.

[Geoff Chandler]

Hi Chris,

400 Corners was long enough. I got two awards for the Corner - why was beyond me. I think at I managed to yank
the chain of every Scot that ever pushed a pawn - I cried a wee bitty when the 2nd award was made, I did not expect it.

Getting close to 400 on RHP. But there I have access to the whole planet, nobody is safe.

Hi Justin,

Read what?

[Matt Mackenzie]

At the top of the Chess Notes page yesterday, was a list of the (some two dozen) various spellings of Korchnoi.

EGW reads this forum, you know!

[O.G. Urcan]

Three Kingpin pieces:

https://www.kingpinchess.net/2012/04/plagiarism-watch/

https://www.kingpinchess.net/2016/02/ex ... in_39-pdf/

https://www.kingpinchess.net/2013/08/its-only-chess-2/


O.G. Urcan

[O.G. Urcan]

On 15 May, Gerard Killoran drew attention to the 1991 Sunday Times article about the Keene-Miles affair.

The subsequent letters from Raymond Keene and Tony Miles in the Sunday Times correspondence column can be read here.

See too this section of the same article by Edward Winter.

Tony Miles' original account of the affair was in Kingpin in 1989.

There was also extensive correspondence involving Raymond Keene, Tony Miles, David Anderton and Nick Pitt in CHESS in 1991.

O.G. Urcan

[NickFaulks]

Tony Miles' original account of the affair was in Kingpin in 1989.

Well worth another read. Also, I had forgotten about the Antarctic Chess Association.

[Kevin Thurlow]

"Well worth another read."

Well, yes. BCF seemed to get away with some pretty obvious cover-ups. I guess not enough people cared. I'm a bit puzzled that David Anderton was said to have resigned, as he was still active later.

Presumably Sunday Times weren't bothered about people plagiarising their publication either.