Nice 74

[NickFaulks]

Keene’s affirmation in the Introduction that the columns have been edited (by C.J. de Mooi)

You wouldn't expect anything to get past him.

[Paul Cooksey]

I'm going to hazard a guess that if I read Fifty Shades of Ray I would think it was a bad book. But I would find the position that people should be ashamed to associate with the authors of bad books a bit excessive, if that is what is being argued.

[Kevin Thurlow]

""...We should both leave the debate to people who are better informed.""

If you did that, there wouldn't be any internet.

[JustinHorton]

Keene’s affirmation in the Introduction that the columns have been edited (by C.J. de Mooi)

You wouldn't expect anything to get past him.

To be fair getting things past other people is his speciality.

[Geoff Chandler]

Hi Justin,

Read your own post quoting me again:

'if a non-player is proofing.'

and see if you can spot the clue about whether or not I knew he was a chess player.

[JustinHorton]

Does this thread demonstrate that trying to follow your thought processes is that straightforward Geoff

[Chris Goodall]

Ray Keene's greatest contribution to chess in England has been to supply us with a stream of divisive "incidents" of no consequence whatsoever. His antics are part of the lore of chess in England, just as a controversial handball decision can become part of the lore of football. Staking out your position, punctuationlessly snarking at any idiot who disagrees with you and awarding them points out of 10, is part of the glue that holds our chess community together. Everyone knows Keene is going to his grave without any of this being "resolved" one way or another, and that's what makes it interesting.

Be honest, can you imagine your non-chess-playing friends keeping a straight face if you explained that the affair that most exercises English chess players to this day, is that a bloke in 1985 over-claimed on his expenses to the tune of £1,200, half of which was returned?

[O.G. Urcan]

"Incorrigible" is certainly the word to describe Raymond Keene. Two examples from my own experience:

1) A message of mine in the thread "Chess & Bridge Withdraw Ray Keene's Book from Sale":
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10047&p=231012#p231012

Fifty Shades of Ray still uses the misspelling "Kieseritsky."

2) My article https://www.patreon.com/posts/31766440 showed how a BCM article by Raymond Keene messed up the game-score Alekhine vs. Sämisch,Vienna, 1922.

Fifty Shades of Ray copy-pastes the BCM article without any correction.

O.G. Urcan

[Paul Cooksey]

I am curious what proportion of sales of Fifty Shades of Ray are to people buying it to look for mistakes!

[Chris Goodall]

Fifty Shades of Ray still uses the misspelling "Kieseritsky."

That's barely even a misspelling; the guy was born Лионель Кизерицкий, and the German orthography happened to catch on in Western Europe. The English would have called him Kizeritsky if they'd got to him first. (Don't get me started on "Nepomniachtchi" for Непомнящий.)

[NickFaulks]

(Don't get me started on "Nepomniachtchi" for Непомнящий.)

Indeed. There are at least five different transliterations of that in currency. Who decides?

[John Townsend]

The spelling "Kieseritzky" was and is normal, as can be seen, for example, in Edward Winter's feature article on The Immortal Game:

https://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/immortal.html

This includes a note of two specimens of his signature while he was in England in 1851; in both instances, the surname was "Kieseritzky".

[Chris Goodall]

Kieseritzky was and is normal; Kieseritsky is barely even a misspelling.

[JustinHorton]

(Don't get me started on "Nepomniachtchi" for Непомнящий.)

Indeed. There are at least five different transliterations of that in currency. Who decides?

Custom and practice

[Gerard Killoran]

Anyone who tries to defend Ray Keene (in the face of all the evidence) does nothing for his reputation, they only damage their own credibility.

"It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person" - attributed to Bill Murray.