Change to Fines for Non-Members ?
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Change to Fines for Non-Members ?
The Treasurer of the Berkshire Chess Association informed me today of the invoice received from the ECF in respect of fines for non-membership.
It would appear that regardless of the number of half games played by a non ECF member that the fine to the organisation making the grading return is
£16 for an adult
and
£5 for a junior
Is this a change of policy?
Maybe it is too time consuming to discover how many half-games were played even though this is contained in the grading return ?
My take on this (if it is indeed a change of policy) is that the incentive for clubs to encourage membership is reduced.
As a club membership secretary I try my level best to encourage membership of the ECF. If the fine is capped at £16 or £5 then I'm not sure if I need to bother in the future.
It would appear that regardless of the number of half games played by a non ECF member that the fine to the organisation making the grading return is
£16 for an adult
and
£5 for a junior
Is this a change of policy?
Maybe it is too time consuming to discover how many half-games were played even though this is contained in the grading return ?
My take on this (if it is indeed a change of policy) is that the incentive for clubs to encourage membership is reduced.
As a club membership secretary I try my level best to encourage membership of the ECF. If the fine is capped at £16 or £5 then I'm not sure if I need to bother in the future.
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Re: Change to Fines for Non-Members ?
This was announced at least a year ago.
The cost is per League played in rather than per player.
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Re: Change to Fines for Non-Members ?
Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:30 amThis was announced at least a year ago.
The cost is per League played in rather than per player.
Thanks Roger : I must have missed it.
I guess it is much easier to administer for the ECF at some cost in lost revenue.
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Re: Change to Fines for Non-Members ?
I believe the £16 is not a fixed fee, but is the Bronze membership fee for the year in which the games were played. However this does not confer Bronze membership on the individual(s) affected - as Roger says, the fee applies to each league or organisation in which games were played rather than to the player. The '3 free games per non-member per League' rule was introduced at the same time.
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Re: Change to Fines for Non-Members ?
Do you mean that you would just pass the fine on to the player at the end of the season, confident that it won't be more than £16/£5 (the current charges for Bronze membership)? If yes, I can see a couple of potential pitfalls:John Upham wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:25 amAs a club membership secretary I try my level best to encourage membership of the ECF. If the fine is capped at £16 or £5 (in the case of a junior) then I'm not sure if I need to bother in the future.
- the player may have moved on and/or be reluctant or slow to pay the fine; and,
- the fines apply per event and if a non-member plays more than three games in each of two or more events, there will be multiple fines against the same player - e.g. a total fine for the player of £32 rather than £16. (I don't like this and I think it goes against the ethos of the ECF.)
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Re: Change to Fines for Non-Members ?
In the past I have pro-actively chased players as soon as they have played four gradeable (?) games for club to complete their ECF membership and advised captains not to select them any further.Angus French wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:52 pmDo you mean that you would just pass the fine on to the player at the end of the season, confident that it won't be more than £16/£5 (the current charges for Bronze membership)? If yes, I can see a couple of potential pitfalls:John Upham wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:25 amAs a club membership secretary I try my level best to encourage membership of the ECF. If the fine is capped at £16 or £5 (in the case of a junior) then I'm not sure if I need to bother in the future.
- the player may have moved on and/or be reluctant or slow to pay the fine; and,
- the fines apply per event and if a non-member plays more than three games in each of two or more events, there will be multiple fines against the same player - e.g. a total fine for the player of £32 rather than £16. (I don't like this and I think it goes against the ethos of the ECF.)
I have wanted to advise captains not to select a player at the start of the season unless they are an ECF member but has proved unworkable.
There is a club in the Berkshire League who routinely has ZERO of its players as members and the captain claws back the fines from the College.
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Re: Change to Fines for Non-Members ?
The new system is much better as it does away with the `tax` element of the old system in that you're no longer incurring a £2.50 charge every time a non member plays; allowing you to give a new player a go or use a one off reserve for free.
This isn't really one for a public forum but I'm wondering if the ECF is in the process of issuing invoices for leagues or if these have already been sent. I assumed they would send them to the `treasurer` as specified in the grading file header but I might be (badly) mistaken.
This isn't really one for a public forum but I'm wondering if the ECF is in the process of issuing invoices for leagues or if these have already been sent. I assumed they would send them to the `treasurer` as specified in the grading file header but I might be (badly) mistaken.
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Re: Change to Fines for Non-Members ?
You can see why they go on to be Cabinet ministers.John Upham wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:09 pmThere is a club in the Berkshire League who routinely has ZERO of its players as members and the captain claws back the fines from the College.
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Re: Change to Fines for Non-Members ?
That's why the issue has surfaced.Andrew Zigmond wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:07 pmbut I'm wondering if the ECF is in the process of issuing invoices for leagues or if these have already been sent.
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Re: Change to Fines for Non-Members ?
I know that Roger. My point is that I'm expecting a couple of invoices to come to me so either they haven't been issued yet or they've gone to the wrong person. However I'm in the process of chasing.Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:55 pmThat's why the issue has surfaced.Andrew Zigmond wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:07 pmbut I'm wondering if the ECF is in the process of issuing invoices for leagues or if these have already been sent.
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Re: Change to Fines for Non-Members ?
The ECF office is in process of issuing said invoices and should finish the bulk of them this week, d.v.
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Re: Change to Fines for Non-Members ?
I hope they have got the duplicate Surrey league games out of the data. The leagues pass onto clubs with this years fees.
Some clubs may not pass on. That is when may not pay until June and also when clubs own process is not compulsory registration.
Let alone our league rules.
Fines/taxes is irrelevant. Can you see small claims courts dealing with this?
Some clubs may not pass on. That is when may not pay until June and also when clubs own process is not compulsory registration.
Let alone our league rules.
Fines/taxes is irrelevant. Can you see small claims courts dealing with this?
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Re: Change to Fines for Non-Members ?
Thanks Paul. I have emailed Andrew Walker as well. I'm mainly trying to ensure that the local ones come to me to prevent them going into a black hole elsewhere.Paul Buswell wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:35 pmThe ECF office is in process of issuing said invoices and should finish the bulk of them this week, d.v.
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