The bloodbath incase anyone missed itDavid Robertson wrote:The French Tarrasch with 3...c5 is the most savage tabiya known to chessJoshua Gibbs wrote:great to see Mickey Adams play such a brutal game
It's covered in Playing the French by Aagard and Ntirlis but the resulting "Capablanca Structure" can arise out of the Caro Kann, Sicilian or Scandinavian so there is probably a lot of material but probably in other openings books. It may well have confused Wenjun Ju as 7...Be7 isn't considered optimum.Roger de Coverly wrote:The sequence 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 c5 4. exd5 Qxd5 5. dxc5 has been played before not least by Adams himself.
I cannot recall seeing it in any of the various books "How to beat the French", or indeed recall what is the "refutation" advocated by "Why the French is wonderful" books.
He mentioned that he thought it was a more normal move when going through the game with Jovanka.Roger Lancaster wrote:Bit puzzled, isn't 5...Bxc5 regarded as a sounder line for black?
Maybe, but real French Defence players will play 3...Nf6. Still likely to get crushed by the likes of Adams of course, but will score the occasional win!Roger Lancaster wrote:Bit puzzled, isn't 5...Bxc5 regarded as a sounder line for black?
I'd have thought so, yes.Graham Borrowdale wrote:Maybe, but real French Defence players will play 3...Nf6. Still likely to get crushed by the likes of Adams of course, but will score the occasional win!Roger Lancaster wrote:Bit puzzled, isn't 5...Bxc5 regarded as a sounder line for black?
It could be the Mickey wanted to encourage people to play 5...Bxc5. Aagard and Ntirlis have a problem with that move and I'll just briefly say why:LawrenceCooper wrote:He mentioned that he thought it was a more normal move when going through the game with Jovanka.Roger Lancaster wrote:Bit puzzled, isn't 5...Bxc5 regarded as a sounder line for black?
He has +11=2 against 3...Nf6 in my database containing games since 2000Jonathan Rogers wrote:I'd have thought so, yes.Graham Borrowdale wrote:Maybe, but real French Defence players will play 3...Nf6. Still likely to get crushed by the likes of Adams of course, but will score the occasional win!Roger Lancaster wrote:Bit puzzled, isn't 5...Bxc5 regarded as a sounder line for black?
And I suspect that Adams' results actually do bear this out. I can only remember him once losing after 3...c5 in his life and that was when Black recaptured with exd5: see http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1014121
against 4...Qxd5 I think his score is monstrous, and has been since he was a young teenager (I remember a miniature win v Karl Bowden in the second round round of the British in 1986). See too his win v Levitt: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1014372
Whereas I suspect his fortunes have been more mixed against 3...Nf6; he certainly had his losses in his junior days (Andrew Mack, Gary Quillan), though I expect he has done well overall.
This is based on my menory and observation - databases might prove me hopelessly wrong. Until someone tells me that this is the case though, I agree that it was a bad choice of opening by Ju Wenjun yesterday.
Jonathan Rogers wrote:pairings today include Cheparinov v Topalov (!).
Every time I sit next to a game in that line Black gets marmalised. I wouldn't touch it.Graham Borrowdale wrote:Maybe, but real French Defence players will play 3...Nf6. Still likely to get crushed by the likes of Adams of course, but will score the occasional win!Roger Lancaster wrote:Bit puzzled, isn't 5...Bxc5 regarded as a sounder line for black?
Not badLawrenceCooper wrote:He has +11=2 against 3...Nf6 in my database containing games since 2000Jonathan Rogers wrote:I'd have thought so, yes.Graham Borrowdale wrote:
Maybe, but real French Defence players will play 3...Nf6. Still likely to get crushed by the likes of Adams of course, but will score the occasional win!
And I suspect that Adams' results actually do bear this out. I can only remember him once losing after 3...c5 in his life and that was when Black recaptured with exd5: see http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1014121
against 4...Qxd5 I think his score is monstrous, and has been since he was a young teenager (I remember a miniature win v Karl Bowden in the second round round of the British in 1986). See too his win v Levitt: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1014372
Whereas I suspect his fortunes have been more mixed against 3...Nf6; he certainly had his losses in his junior days (Andrew Mack, Gary Quillan), though I expect he has done well overall.
This is based on my menory and observation - databases might prove me hopelessly wrong. Until someone tells me that this is the case though, I agree that it was a bad choice of opening by Ju Wenjun yesterday.
though perhaps Morozevic would have been the only other world class player likely to play it against him?Shirov & Gurevich(M) were the draws whilst Navara & Gurevich (M) were among the victims.Jonathan Rogers wrote:Not badLawrenceCooper wrote:He has +11=2 against 3...Nf6 in my database containing games since 2000Jonathan Rogers wrote:
I'd have thought so, yes.
And I suspect that Adams' results actually do bear this out. I can only remember him once losing after 3...c5 in his life and that was when Black recaptured with exd5: see http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1014121
against 4...Qxd5 I think his score is monstrous, and has been since he was a young teenager (I remember a miniature win v Karl Bowden in the second round round of the British in 1986). See too his win v Levitt: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1014372
Whereas I suspect his fortunes have been more mixed against 3...Nf6; he certainly had his losses in his junior days (Andrew Mack, Gary Quillan), though I expect he has done well overall.
This is based on my menory and observation - databases might prove me hopelessly wrong. Until someone tells me that this is the case though, I agree that it was a bad choice of opening by Ju Wenjun yesterday.