"SavetheUKCC" petition

[Alan Kennedy]

These statements that Mike Basman is making, are they actually helping save the UK Chess Challenge?

No nor are the helping Mike Basman. Any potential rescuer will lose respect for him.

[Alan Kennedy]

it may well have been possible to canvass for a retired accountant, bookkeeper or tax expert to assist with the record keeping or the event structure. No such appeal was ever made.

Given that I have suggested you may be eligible for the accountants nexus are you volunteering

Alan

[Michael Flatt]

No that is spot on and what everyone agrees! I just doubt it can be done by Mr Basman in isolation and finding the person to drive it forward is a real challenge as Michael Flatt rightly points out (at last Michael we agree on something!)

I think that you might be referring to Michael Farthing's post. Credit where credit is due.

So what am I saying for the UK Chess Challenge? It really isn't the end of it, even if it is bankrupt. It would certainly be possible to reform the tournament and simply start it again, even if it was under a slightly different name.

Or is that just a little bit too simple?

Well there's only one slight problem with it, sadly.
You have to find someone with the tenacity, determination, character, knowledge and readiness to work very hard in return for little but praise, abuse, threats of litigation and general criticism.

I really and very truly hope, David, that your vision triumphs over my cynicism.

[Alan Kennedy]

I think that you might be referring to Michael Farthing's post. Credit where credit is due.

whoops i am so sorry.

[Michael Farthing]

I think that you might be referring to Michael Farthing's post. Credit where credit is due.

whoops so i was sorry.

No offence taken and thanks t'other Michael for the correction.

[Jonathan Bryant]

These statements that Mike Basman is making, are they actually helping save the UK Chess Challenge?

He starts the latest one by comparing himself to Gandhi. Does that answer your question?

[Alan Kennedy]

I have decided that it is time I withdraw from this debate. My objective was to explain the process of bankruptcy to those posting and indirectly to Mr Basman because I had sympathy with his predictament. I am grateful to those who made kind comments about my posts and respect those who disagreed with my point of view.

The best him I can probably do for Mr Basman is to point to a quote from an email from a marketing guru, Chris Cardell, that I received recently:

The day I started to turn my financial life around was the day I looked at my bank account and admitted that the person responsible for the disastrous lack of money in it, was me. Nobody else. Just me. It was a painful moment but it immediately gave me my power back. If others were responsible for my problems, they were responsible for changing them. But if it was my fault, I could do something about it - fast.

Perhaps Mr Basman, rather than attacking your critics (i have not seen any criticism that I would describe as unfair btw), it is time to listen to those like Mr Cardell who have been successful in business.

It only remains for me to wish Mike Basman well for the future and thank him for all his efforts on the UK chess challenge. My sons greatly enjoyed the experience, they said thank you at the time, and I would reiterate those thanks. If you need my help in the future do get in touch. There would be no charge and, just to prove I am a proper accountant, this offer is subject to availability and t and cs.

[Mick Norris]

Alan

Thanks for your posts, most illuminating

[JustinHorton]

The best him I can probably do for Mr Basman is to point to a quote from an email from a marketing guru, Chris Cardell, that I received recently

Quite an interesting Google search, Chris Cardell.

[Michael Farthing]

Well said, Alan.

When I started in chess Mike Basman was one of the newly arrived great names that were reviving English chess dreams and since then, 1965, he has been a figure whom I look up to. The current situation is very tragic and I think most of us here wish him well, whatever impression he may have gained,

However, he has made mistakes and has been cavalier in his actions. His latest statement looks forward to new windmills: Hinckley Point, perhaps, is the modern equivalent?

No Mr Basman, listen to Alan.

[Alan Kennedy]

The best him I can probably do for Mr Basman is to point to a quote from an email from a marketing guru, Chris Cardell, that I received recently

Quite an interesting Google search, Chris Cardell.

Indeed. He attracted criticism from a lot of quarters including the advertising standards authority but if you attend his conferences he has 000s of people attending and speaks some very good sense. Some of his marketing ideas are brilliant and last time I looked at this company's accounts he had significant amounts of wealth and I suspect his net assets are more than enough to pay even Mr Basman's vat bill. I know to whom I would prefer to listen. Do you have any thoughts on the sentiment behind the comment or are you just a detractor.

[JustinHorton]

The best him I can probably do for Mr Basman is to point to a quote from an email from a marketing guru, Chris Cardell, that I received recently

Quite an interesting Google search, Chris Cardell.

Indeed. He attracted criticism from a lot of quarters including the advertising standards authority

Which is quite important for somebody whose business involves quite a lot of marketing.

if you attend his conferences he has 000s of people attending

About that, I absolutely could not care less. All kinds of people hold well-attended conferences. It's the last thing in the world that would impress me.

last time I looked at this company's accounts he had significant amounts of wealth and I suspect his net assets are more than enough to pay even Mr Basman's vat bill.

I did have a little look myself though of course I lack your expertise in this particuar field.

Do you have any thoughts on the sentiment behind the comment or are you just a detractor.

Just a detractor, Alan. However, being unimpressed by appearances has the useful by-product of making me a lot less vulnerable to gurus, self-publicists and other potential wrong 'uns than some other people in the chess world.

[John Upham]

Whilst attending an ECF event at Eton College I chatted with a member of the UKCC organising team.

She assured me that UKCC would be managed by persons who had been involved for the 2015 - 2016 season with MJB being displaced to the "background".

I did enquire if this opinion had been agreed with the Trustee of MJB's bankruptcy.

I enquired if a Limited Liability Company had been registered.

I enquired if UKCC and UK Chess Challenge had been registered as Trademarks.

I enquired if an accountant was to be appointed: it was agreed that this was necessary.

The replies were less than clear.

Quite what would happen if they attempted to sell entries to UKCC without permission of the Trustee I do not know.

[Michael Flatt]

Whilst attending an ECF event at Eton College I chatted with a member of the UKCC organising team.
She assured me that UKCC would be managed by persons who had been involved for the 2015 - 2016 season with MJB being displaced to the "background".

I did enquire if this opinion had been agreed with the Trustee of MJB's bankruptcy.
I enquired if a Limited Liability Company had been registered.
I enquired if UKCC and UK Chess Challenge had been registered as Trademarks.
I enquired if an accountant was to be appointed: it was agreed that this was necessary.
The replies were less than clear.

Quite what would happen if they attempted to sell entries to UKCC without permission of the Trustee I do not know.

The tax assessment, I believe, is against the Organiser as an individual. The liability arises from his accepting entry fees and taking sole financial responsibility of the series of competitions he had organised.

Clearly, any organiser, or management team, who wished to run a similar type of competition would need to ensure that the originator of the competition format, if he were retained as a paid advisor, would not have any direct financial interest nor control of the new venture.

It would be safest to register the organisation as a Limited Company or Charitable Incorporated Organisation (CIO). There is advice regarding different legal structures at: http://www.resourcecentre.org.uk/inform ... ry-groups/

Registering as a full blown Charity is also a possibility, but will take slightly longer: https://www.gov.uk/government/organisat ... commission

One of the other posters on this discussion thread seems to believe we somehow disagree. That is not true. I would not dispute his professional knowledge. The finances, although a key consideration, is not the only factor to be taken into account.

I was a Trustee of an canal boating organisation which I helped set up as a CIO and soon afterwards as a registered Charity. The previous registered charity, which had paid managers and employees, had become Bankrupt and the unpaid volunteers, of which I was one, wished to continue its good work, which we did. We bought the assets including one canal boat from the Receiver, negotiated with the local authority over the lease of the Boat Base and also the continuing loan of two other boats owned by a separate charity.

[John Swain]

Whilst attending an ECF event at Eton College I chatted with a member of the UKCC organising team.
She assured me that UKCC would be managed by persons who had been involved for the 2015 - 2016 season with MJB being displaced to the "background".

I did enquire if this opinion had been agreed with the Trustee of MJB's bankruptcy.
I enquired if a Limited Liability Company had been registered.
I enquired if UKCC and UK Chess Challenge had been registered as Trademarks.
I enquired if an accountant was to be appointed: it was agreed that this was necessary.
The replies were less than clear.

Quite what would happen if they attempted to sell entries to UKCC without permission of the Trustee I do not know.

The tax assessment, I believe, is against the Organiser as an individual. The liability arises from his accepting entry fees and taking sole financial responsibility of the series of competitions he had organised.

Clearly, any organiser, or management team, who wished to run a similar type of competition would need to ensure that the originator of the competition format, if he were retained as a paid advisor, would not have any direct financial interest nor control of the new venture.

It would be safest to register the organisation as a Limited Company or Charitable Incorporated Organisation (CIO). There is advice regarding different legal structures at: http://www.resourcecentre.org.uk/inform ... ry-groups/

Registering as a full blown Charity is also a possibility, but will take slightly longer: https://www.gov.uk/government/organisat ... commission

One of the other posters on this discussion thread seems to believe we somehow disagree. That is not true. I would not dispute his professional knowledge. The finances, although a key consideration, is not the only factor to be taken into account.

I was a Trustee of an canal boating organisation which I helped set up as a CIO and soon afterwards as a registered Charity. The previous registered charity, which had paid managers and employees, had become Bankrupt and the unpaid volunteers, of which I was one, wished to continue its good work, which we did. We bought the assets including one canal boat from the Receiver, negotiated with the local authority over the lease of the Boat Base and also the continuing loan of two other boats owned by a separate charity.

Interesting information from John Upham - the first indication that the UKCC may still be functioning in 2017, which is good news for thousands of children. I hope that those thinking of taking on the UKCC take note of the good advice from Michael Flatt (and others earlier in the thread).

I have recently spoken to some participants, parents and a Megafinal organiser. All concurred that the entry fees for the Megafinal, Gigafinal and Terafinal could rise from £15 to £19-£20 without driving away many individual punters and this would enable VAT to be paid and the school entry fee to remain at £40 (much more and there is a danger that the declining number of participating schools will accelerate). This is based on the figures given on the Delancey site where there seem to be about 7000 Megafinalists, 1800 Gigafinalists and 250 Terafinalists, derived from about 1300 schools and junior clubs. Obviously there are lots of other factors to consider; for example, will sponsorship continue and is the very generous prize-structure to be retained?