Black skull and cross-bones

John Townsend · Post by **John Townsend** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:59 am

Having been invited to play in a match for a local club, I might have been tempted to accept. However, I have noticed that, when results are published on the Berkshire Chess website, non-members of the E.C.F are distinguished from members by a black skull and cross-bones symbol.

For example:

http://www.berkshirechess.org.uk/match_ ... n=20122013

This may be amusing to some people, but others may find it offensive, and it may deter non-members from playing chess.

Alex Holowczak · Post by **Alex Holowczak** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:22 am

John Townsend wrote:However, I have noticed that, when results are published on the Berkshire Chess website, non-members of the E.C.F are distinguished from members by a black skull and cross-bones symbol.

[...]

This may be amusing to some people, but others may find it offensive, and it may deter non-members from playing chess.

What did the person who runs the website say when you contacted him about it?

John Townsend · Post by **John Townsend** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:39 am

It's not just the Berkshire website. The black skull and cross-bones is also used to indicate E.C.F. non-members on the website of the London league, and the Chiltern county matches. There may be others ...

Carl Hibbard · Post by **Carl Hibbard** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:44 am

John Townsend wrote:It's not just the Berkshire website. The black skull and cross-bones is also used to indicate E.C.F. non-members on the website of the London league, and the Chiltern county matches. There may be others ...

John Upham is your man and yes it does look a little nasty so perhaps another icon?

Carl Hibbard · Post by **Carl Hibbard** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:45 am

Whisper about it so that Roger does not know

John Upham · Post by **John Upham** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:53 am

I'm running a Christmas competition to suggest an alternative logo for a non-ECF member.

Please upload your suggestions to this thread.

Michael Bennett · Post by **Michael Bennett** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:08 pm

How about the ECF logo, but negative colours?

John Upham · Post by **John Upham** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:25 pm

Michael Bennett wrote:How about the ECF logo, but negative colours?

Good idea:

: Negative version of current ECF logo; ecflogo_neg.jpg (2.22 KiB) Viewed 3500 times

is the negative version....

Ian Thompson · Post by **Ian Thompson** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:20 pm

John Upham wrote:I'm running a Christmas competition to suggest an alternative logo for a non-ECF member.

My frivolous suggestion would be a pound sign or a cash register

.

My serious suggestion would be to remove the symbols for both members and non-members and to put the information somewhere else (or at least make it less prominent than it is at the moment on match cards). You've already got lists of ECF members and non-members for each club. Change the non-member list to include the number of games played by each non-member and show the resulting game fees. Also, give total game fees due from the club for all its non-members. While you're doing that correct the calculation of games fees for rapidplay games so it shows the correct amount.

Angus French · Post by **Angus French** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:16 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:My serious suggestion would be to remove the symbols for both members and non-members and to put the information somewhere else (or at least make it less prominent than it is at the moment on match cards). You've already got lists of ECF members and non-members for each club. Change the non-member list to include the number of games played by each non-member and show the resulting game fees. Also, give total game fees due from the club for all its non-members. While you're doing that correct the calculation of games fees for rapidplay games so it shows the correct amount.

I agree with this. I also think that any reports listing non-members should carry a text rider to explain the method for identifying members/non-members and to state that the results aren't guaranteed.

My second choice would be to have logos but only for members - a more discrete way of identifying non-members.

John Townsend · Post by **John Townsend** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:38 pm

What was the black skull and cross-bones meant to convey? It could be interpreted in different ways, but all that I can think of are disrespectful to non-members, while some would be insulting.

How could non-members be expected to dip a toe tentatively into the water of league chess if they were given the black skull and cross-bones treatment? It was applied to adult and junior non-members alike. I can't understand the thinking behind it.

I don't see why a player's membership status needs to be published on the website at all. Isn't it personal data?

Greg Breed · Post by **Greg Breed** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:08 pm

Angus French wrote:
Ian Thompson wrote:My serious suggestion would be to remove the symbols for both members and non-members and to put the information somewhere else (or at least make it less prominent than it is at the moment on match cards). You've already got lists of ECF members and non-members for each club. Change the non-member list to include the number of games played by each non-member and show the resulting game fees. Also, give total game fees due from the club for all its non-members. While you're doing that correct the calculation of games fees for rapidplay games so it shows the correct amount.
I agree with this. I also think that any reports listing non-members should carry a text rider to explain the method for identifying members/non-members and to state that the results aren't guaranteed.

My second choice would be to have logos but only for members - a more discrete way of identifying non-members.

I think both above listed options are good.

John Townsend wrote:I don't see why a player's membership status needs to be published on the website at all. Isn't it personal data?

Perhaps to help League finance controller determine which club owes what for match/league fees. I think it helps, but perhaps there are other ways that are more discreet.

Patrick McGovern · Post by **Patrick McGovern** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:23 pm

the logo for the non members could be a Patron Saint. e.g St Antony of Padua (patron of the poor)

or St Leonard of Noblac (Patron against robbery)

English Chess Forum

Black skull and cross-bones

Black skull and cross-bones

Re: Black skull and cross-bones

Re: Black skull and cross-bones

Re: Black skull and cross-bones

Re: Black skull and cross-bones

Re: Black skull and cross-bones

Re: Black skull and cross-bones

Re: Black skull and cross-bones

Re: Black skull and cross-bones

Re: Black skull and cross-bones

Re: Black skull and cross-bones

Re: Black skull and cross-bones

Re: Black skull and cross-bones