Because then you'd miss out on the fun of complaining about it?Jon Underwood wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:28 amWell we have to ask ourselves what is the point in playing in a competition where the final venue is so massively and obviously unfair it is going to be impossible to get a competitive team together.
Old Chestnut
-
- Posts: 9085
- Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
- Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire
Re: Old Chestnut
-
- Posts: 1963
- Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:36 pm
Re: Old Chestnut
Can I say we have gone off at a tangent from the original Old Chestnut about inclusion of female players. Can the discussion of venues go elsewhere please - I have several things to say (unfortunately) on this subject!
I hope that the stats I produced (four women players out of 310+ in the semis) might have put this one to bed for a while.
I hope that the stats I produced (four women players out of 310+ in the semis) might have put this one to bed for a while.
-
- Posts: 88
- Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:28 pm
- Location: Devon
Re: Old Chestnut
Thanks for that considered remark.Alex Holowczak wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:37 amBecause then you'd miss out on the fun of complaining about it?Jon Underwood wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:28 amWell we have to ask ourselves what is the point in playing in a competition where the final venue is so massively and obviously unfair it is going to be impossible to get a competitive team together.
-
- Posts: 690
- Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:51 pm
- Location: Manchester
Re: Old Chestnut
I understood your points, and the inclusion of female players is a worried but out of the games that was default what is the true figureNeil Graham wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:57 amCan I say we have gone off at a tangent from the original Old Chestnut about inclusion of female players. Can the discussion of venues go elsewhere please - I have several things to say (unfortunately) on this subject!
I hope that the stats I produced (four women players out of 310+ in the semis) might have put this one to bed for a while.
Any postings on here represent my personal views only and also Dyslexia as well
-
- Posts: 8493
- Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm
Re: Old Chestnut
Put what to bed? We know that female players, a small number anyway, are disproportionately reluctant to give up a Saturday to play a county chess match. That is a shame, but is hardly the biggest problem faced by the competition.Neil Graham wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:57 amI hope that the stats I produced (four women players out of 310+ in the semis) might have put this one to bed for a while.
Last edited by NickFaulks on Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.
-
- Posts: 1838
- Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:16 am
Re: Old Chestnut
I am all for equal opportunity. This is where I agree with my county policy on county chess matches.
I find that females want to be considered on their merits as players. if they are available they will play.
Can I say I believe that are not disproportionally reluctant to give up a Saturday to play a county chess match compared to men. I think that putting such an a clause as using females in terms of having to play or influencing a result in the case of a tie is not a great way to decide a competition.
I do appreciate female players. And our discussions.
I have never had a dispute with a female player. I believe the ratio of chess disputes is disproportionally caused by males.
I find that females want to be considered on their merits as players. if they are available they will play.
Can I say I believe that are not disproportionally reluctant to give up a Saturday to play a county chess match compared to men. I think that putting such an a clause as using females in terms of having to play or influencing a result in the case of a tie is not a great way to decide a competition.
I do appreciate female players. And our discussions.
I have never had a dispute with a female player. I believe the ratio of chess disputes is disproportionally caused by males.
-
- Posts: 8493
- Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm
Re: Old Chestnut
You can say it, but it does not appear to be borne out by the facts.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.
-
- Posts: 1963
- Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:36 pm
Re: Old Chestnut
That was the correct figure - 317 players actually competed in the semi-finals of which four were women. This includes games won by default where players names are given but obviously not matches won by defaultJohn Reyes wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:32 pmI understood your points, and the inclusion of female players is a worried but out of the games that was default what is the true figureNeil Graham wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:57 amCan I say we have gone off at a tangent from the original Old Chestnut about inclusion of female players. Can the discussion of venues go elsewhere please - I have several things to say (unfortunately) on this subject!
I hope that the stats I produced (four women players out of 310+ in the semis) might have put this one to bed for a while.
Here are the actual figures with total players and females in brackets
Open 64 (0)
Minor 32 (0)
U160 64 (0)
U140 62 (1)
U120 47 (0)
U100 48 (3)
-
- Posts: 1963
- Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:36 pm
Re: Old Chestnut
We have no idea what the facts are. We can say that there are few women players but unless someone can provide some statistics, which of course we can't, on how many women were asked to play and how many were reluctant we are left with the stats I've quoted above. As for the comment about " "the biggest problem faced by the competition" I can tell you what that is as I refer to it constantly on this forum. It's a lack of volunteers for chess administrative posts.NickFaulks wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:05 pmYou can say it, but it does not appear to be borne out by the facts.
-
- Posts: 3584
- Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
- Location: Awbridge, Hampshire
Re: Old Chestnut
But how many female players have you played? What proportion is that of all your games? Both tiny, I would guess. And how many of your games have disputes? Very few I would hope.
In my case I can identify about 2.5% of my opponents as being female, so lets call it 3% because there will be some where I only have an initial and can't tell they're female from their first name. The number of disputes I've had is very small, certainly well under 1% of games I've played. So it's hardly surprising I've never had a dispute with a female player as far as I can recall.
-
- Posts: 9085
- Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
- Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire
Re: Old Chestnut
I think there are as many people prepared to captain teams/squads as there always have been. Those volunteers are just going into 4NCL captaincy rather than County team captaincy.Neil Graham wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:02 pmI can tell you what that is as I refer to it constantly on this forum. It's a lack of volunteers for chess administrative posts.
-
- Posts: 1838
- Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:16 am
Re: Old Chestnut
5% in the last 10 years.2% in the previous 20, and nil % in my first 15 years. This is improvement. We could do better. I spend time encouraging parents of juniors. many are adults now and it is nice to know how they are doing whether they are still playing or not.
There are female volunteers in chess administration too. They are pleasant team mates as are the males. They also argue less about it on this forum.
4NCL captains/managers kate and Charlie cooke.
plenty of junior chess female organisers. we appreciate our female volunteers organising. In my case at my club we have to thank a female that has organised social chess on a different night this summer.
I know we need larger statistical samples. I agree - there are a lack of volunteers overall. Chess is not all my life. That also applies to many females.
There are female volunteers in chess administration too. They are pleasant team mates as are the males. They also argue less about it on this forum.
4NCL captains/managers kate and Charlie cooke.
plenty of junior chess female organisers. we appreciate our female volunteers organising. In my case at my club we have to thank a female that has organised social chess on a different night this summer.
I know we need larger statistical samples. I agree - there are a lack of volunteers overall. Chess is not all my life. That also applies to many females.
-
- Posts: 1963
- Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:36 pm
Re: Old Chestnut
I'd let the above comment pass but I suppose I'd better answer it. Whilst we can say that Shropshire don't compete in county chess and field teams in the 4NCL there is absolutely no evidence that volunteers are going into 4NCL captaincy rather than county team captaincy. Firstly as has been pointed out on here on a number of occasions, the rules for the competitions are entirely different. Organisation of 4NCL teams have little or no impact on county sides - the average grade is 130 or so - whereas there are very few players of that standard in the 4NCL. The U140, U120 and U100 County Championships, which make up the majority of teams, will have no effect on 4NCL teams & selections. The main problem, as it's always been, is a lack of people who volunteer to organise at a local, county, Union and even national level. I may actually be able to give a practical example of that shortly.Alex Holowczak wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:08 pmI think there are as many people prepared to captain teams/squads as there always have been. Those volunteers are just going into 4NCL captaincy rather than County team captaincy.Neil Graham wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:02 pmI can tell you what that is as I refer to it constantly on this forum. It's a lack of volunteers for chess administrative posts.
-
- Posts: 1260
- Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:43 pm
- Location: Somerset
Re: Old Chestnut
I think Gloucestershire & Dorset work as examples. No Gloucs/ Dorset- based NCL captain and no county team because they can't find a captain.
-
- Posts: 21369
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm
Re: Old Chestnut
I wouldn't be so sure about Dorset and the 4NCL. Wessex has four teams next season and the core area is Dorset, Hampshire, Bournemouth and Southampton. The latter two being leagues.
Don't Gloucester contribute to "West is Best"?