Queens Gambit and Netflix

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JustinHorton
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Re: Queens Gambit and Netflix

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:15 pm

John McKenna wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:08 pm

I expect that one day...the Shakesperian commander Othello will be played by "caucasians"
This is a spectacularly ignorant comment
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"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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John McKenna
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Re: Queens Gambit and Netflix

Post by John McKenna » Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:28 pm

Why so? (And why did you not quote the whole sentence?)

Did not a 'Voodoo' Macbeth happen -

"... The 150-strong cast were all black and the majority had little previous acting experience. The production was part of a government programme called the Federal Theatre Project which was aimed at boosting employment and opportunities during the depression. It gave black actors the opportunity to play ‘real’ acting roles rather than crude racial stereotypes..."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articl ... y-landmark
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John McKenna
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Re: Queens Gambit and Netflix

Post by John McKenna » Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:46 pm

... And are not "Jim" & Othello "crude racial stereotypes?

(Perhaps this thread now not going in the direction of travel you hoped it would. You asked a question - maybe you expected a different answer.)

Edit -

I knew the correct crusader's sidekick would probably be along... (see next post).

If they have little or no idea of irony it's no great loss.

I've said my piece (overleaf) take it or leave it any way you like.

Failure to deal with it as a whole and just following the, by now, standard procedure picking off selected bits (of irony, or comedy) and libeling them as "spectacularly ignorant" is also a failure - a failure to properly engage.

I am still unsure of the reason(s) for the original question but I see someone else has taken up the baton so I'll bow out now.

PS Not watched the QG movie and have no intention of doing so.
Last edited by John McKenna on Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Paul McKeown
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Re: Queens Gambit and Netflix

Post by Paul McKeown » Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:09 pm

Usual suspect canceling culture with a demand for the reinstatement of the Black and White Minstrels. Edifying.

Mick Norris
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Re: Queens Gambit and Netflix

Post by Mick Norris » Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:22 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:17 am
Would a children's home in Kentucky in the Fifities have been unsegregated?

(EDIT: there's quite a detailed and interesting answer to that question here.)
I'd not given that any thought TBH; I see that Tevis lived in Kentucky from c1939 to 1965, so assume he would have known?
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

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JustinHorton
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Re: Queens Gambit and Netflix

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:45 pm

I dunno, how's it depicted in the book
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J T Melsom
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Re: Queens Gambit and Netflix

Post by J T Melsom » Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:25 pm

I've long stopped bothering to engage with some posters. But on a point of good forum practice - how many times should a poster be permitted to use the edit function to make substantive changes?

John McKenna
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Re: Queens Gambit and Netflix

Post by John McKenna » Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:51 pm

I'll engage with that, JT, since I think you may have some of my posts in mind(?)

If so why not be more specific - not a strong point of many posters here about.

It is true that I have edited some posts - usually it is to correct spelling (I do not use a spell checker nor predictive text.)

If you can point to any "substantive changes", I've made then I'll happily discuss the why & wherefore with you.

More worrying is the very substantial censorship practiced by those who use very selective quotes and their subsequent failure to engage in any discussion of substantive points and their resort to name calling and sniping from the sidelines.

Engage with that, or not, as you please.

PS I'd better say this now in case you accuse me of unwarranted editing - as far as I know there are no restrictions on "how many times should a poster be permitted to use the edit function". And what constitutes "good practice" is a matter of opinion.
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John Clarke
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Re: Queens Gambit and Netflix

Post by John Clarke » Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:48 pm

Unless I'm mistaken, the question of whether the orphanage is integrated or segregated is completely incidental to the main narrative, so not really worth getting too worked up about. Put up a note on IMDb if you feel that strongly on the matter.

Othello has been portrayed by a Caucasian (though not as a Caucasian): by Laurence Olivier in the 1965 movie.

I think the recent phenomenon of "colour-blind casting" is a passing phase that will have run its course eventually. (Or will it? I've lost count of the number of US TV shows where any judge featuring as a minor character is invariably female and black. :?)
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Nick Grey
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Re: Queens Gambit and Netflix

Post by Nick Grey » Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:54 pm

I think watching The Queens Gambit helps engage with women about chess.
There are 12 women in my office that want to learn so they can beat their partners and get them off their computers.
In exchange they will give me fashion, make up, and recipe tips so I can treat my partner.

To get me to think with my feminine side, I binged watched Pride and Prejudice, and cannot recall any chess.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Queens Gambit and Netflix

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:38 pm

John Clarke wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:48 pm
Unless I'm mistaken, the question of whether the orphanage is integrated or segregated is completely incidental to the main narrative, so not really worth getting too worked up about.
I don't know who you imagine is "worked up about" it. But I do know there are plausible reasons for accurately representing certain aspects of Southern US society at that particular time.
John Clarke wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:48 pm
Othello has been portrayed by a Caucasian (though not as a Caucasian): by Laurence Olivier in the 1965 movie.
And indeed on almost every occasion in the previous 350 years and many since.
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"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Gerard Killoran
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Re: Queens Gambit and Netflix

Post by Gerard Killoran » Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:25 am

JustinHorton wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:45 pm
I dunno, how's it depicted in the book
In the book, it is clear that the orphanage is not segregated. Beth's friend Jolene is Black and Jolene describes Beth as White.

As for Othello, C. L. R. James had the opinion that Black actors should play every other role in Shakespeare except that, otherwise Othello might be the only one they get.

Iago is a much better part.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Queens Gambit and Netflix

Post by JustinHorton » Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:00 am

Gerard Killoran wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:25 am
JustinHorton wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:45 pm
I dunno, how's it depicted in the book
In the book, it is clear that the orphanage is not segregated. Beth's friend Jolene is Black and Jolene describes Beth as White.
Thanks. Isn't that interesting.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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J T Melsom
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Re: Queens Gambit and Netflix

Post by J T Melsom » Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:15 am

John McKenna

Your post simply reminded me of this issue, I've had exchanges with others where posts have also been modified, hence why i raised the point. I do recall posts which you have amended as many as half a dozen times. Obviously I cannot refer to any substantive changes as the earlier versions of the posts are not available.

John McKenna
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Re: Queens Gambit and Netflix

Post by John McKenna » Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:00 pm

"I do recall posts which you have amended as many as half a dozen times. Obviously I cannot refer to any substantive changes as the earlier versions of the posts are not available."

There's a simple bit of best practice to remedy that shortcoming, JT.

Preserve the specimens in amber, e.g. -
JustinHorton wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:15 pm
John McKenna wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:08 pm

I expect that one day...the Shakesperian commander Othello will be played by "caucasians"
This is a spectacularly ignorant comment
Be very careful when doing so and then crowing about it though. Since things may not be as clear cut as they seem -

"'Shakspere', as used in the poet's own signature, became more widely adopted in the belief that this was the most authentic version..."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spellin ... %20century.

As you may have gathered I am neither a modern moron nor a stickler for convention - spelling, or otherwise.

However, when not editing for erroneous spelling or grammar, I do try to declare what are "'substantive changes", by prefacing them with 'Edit'.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

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