Ruth Sheldon at the 1997 British Ch?Kevin Thurlow wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:19 pm"Which 2 future World Champions did I beat at Classical chess?"
I could randomize it further by asking which past and future world champion I beat in classical chess (serves her right for declining the draw offer).
English victories against reigning World Champions
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Re: English victories against reigning World Champions
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Re: English victories against reigning World Champions
A young Anand? (If I am right, I did this by a process of elimination, as I don't think you would have had the opportunity to play, let alone beat, Kramnik, Kasparov or Karpov before they became World Champion. Not sure if we include Topalov or not, but I think the same applies to him.)Keith Arkell wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:09 pmNo, I've never beaten a Polgar. It was a full World Champion. Not senior, not junior and not woman. Jack is correct that Carlsen is one, but who is the other?Nick Burrows wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:13 pmWas it one of the Polgars?Keith Arkell wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 5:09 pmIf we're randomising this by bringing in Rapidplay wins against reigning Senior World Champs, then I'll also randomise it by setting the quiz question: Which 2 future World Champions did I beat at Classical chess?
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Re: English victories against reigning World Champions
IIRC in the Encyclopaedia of Chess by Golombek, he managed to sneak a mention of his big plus score against her into Menchik's entry.Geoff Chandler wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 11:22 amVera was the Women's World Champion at the time. There will be a few other English players who will have won against her when she reigned as the champ. (Thomas, Yates, Willie Winter players of that ilk)
A kind of Menchik Club in reverse. So we could add Englishman who beat Vera when she was World Champion.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)
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Re: English victories against reigning World Champions
Suba was joint Senior World Champion with Larry Kaufman in 2008. Keith beat Suba in 1991 and Keith beat Kaufmann in 2008.
I had no intention of bringing in Senior/Blitz/Rapd World Champions, though why not it's good fun and the title of the thread is open to interpretation. So next time the age old debate crops up. Who was the strongest player never to be world champion? We can dismiss the oft quoted Korchnoi. He was Senior World Champion in 2006.
I had no intention of bringing in Senior/Blitz/Rapd World Champions, though why not it's good fun and the title of the thread is open to interpretation. So next time the age old debate crops up. Who was the strongest player never to be world champion? We can dismiss the oft quoted Korchnoi. He was Senior World Champion in 2006.
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Re: English victories against reigning World Champions
"Ruth Sheldon at the 1997 British Ch?"
Well done Keith!
I was going to guess Gert Jan Timmerman, but you drew with him...
Well done Keith!
I was going to guess Gert Jan Timmerman, but you drew with him...
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Re: English victories against reigning World Champions
I've not checked but according to a poster at chessgames;
"Carlsen will play his last classical games as World Champion this weekend in the Norwegian League, the last of them will be against David Howell." That would be a good historical scalp for an Englishman. The two have never played each other since Magnus became World Champion.
"Carlsen will play his last classical games as World Champion this weekend in the Norwegian League, the last of them will be against David Howell." That would be a good historical scalp for an Englishman. The two have never played each other since Magnus became World Champion.
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Re: English victories against reigning World Champions
Howell v Carlsen Norwegian League (9), 2023-03-05
1/2-1/2
1/2-1/2
Any postings on here represent my personal views
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Re: English victories against reigning World Champions
Creditable result, but not an actual win!
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)
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Re: English victories against reigning World Champions
I've never beaten Anand at any age, though I have drawn with him in blitz and Rapid tournaments.Christopher Kreuzer wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:38 pmA young Anand? (If I am right, I did this by a process of elimination, as I don't think you would have had the opportunity to play, let alone beat, Kramnik, Kasparov or Karpov before they became World Champion. Not sure if we include Topalov or not, but I think the same applies to him.)Keith Arkell wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:09 pmNo, I've never beaten a Polgar. It was a full World Champion. Not senior, not junior and not woman. Jack is correct that Carlsen is one, but who is the other?
I don't see anyone solving this so I'll reveal the answer: Carlsen and Khalifman. Carlsen at a Round Robin GM tournament in Gausdal in 2002 and Khalifman at the 1991 Watson, Farley and Williams GM tournament - also a Round Robin. Khalifman was World ranked 11 at the time, and a few years later became FIDE World Champion.
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Re: English victories against reigning World Champions
Did an Englishman ever beat Botvinnik?
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Re: English victories against reigning World Champions
Raymond Keene did at Hastings when Botvinnik blundered a rook to a short combination. That was after Botvinnik had lost his title.
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Re: English victories against reigning World Champions
Ray notes up the game here; https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1032724
Ray has just played 32. Qh3-Qg4+
"At which point Botvinnik gasped, raised his hand to his forehead, and resigned."
Ray has just played 32. Qh3-Qg4+
"At which point Botvinnik gasped, raised his hand to his forehead, and resigned."
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Re: English victories against reigning World Champions
I was spectating and Botvinnik's ears definitely turned red.Geoff Chandler wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:58 amRay notes up the game here; https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1032724
Ray has just played 32. Qh3-Qg4+
"At which point Botvinnik gasped, raised his hand to his forehead, and resigned."
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Re: English victories against reigning World Champions
As regards other English wins against Botvinnik, there may be a handful from simuls, but otherwise I only found Sir George Thomas at Hastings in 1934 and Alexander in the 1946 Radio Match. Both from before he was world champion.
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Re: English victories against reigning World Champions
It is still a win against Botwinnik. After Hastings, MB did a simul tour with BH Wood, and certainly struggled against a good field at Ilford. I don't have the newspaper report to hand, but he lost 2 or 3, and conceded several draws. He was still good enough to beat me though.
Off topic, but perhaps interesting is that he agreed to a maximum of 25 opponents, but BH tried to sneak in extra players. MB would walk past BH after one circuit and say, "There are more!" What BH had not noticed was that MB started 1.Nf3 1.g3 1.e4 1.d4 1.c4 in rotation, so if he didn't finish on 1.c4 he knew the number of boards was not a multiple of five... (I may have the order wrong but you get the idea.)
Off topic, but perhaps interesting is that he agreed to a maximum of 25 opponents, but BH tried to sneak in extra players. MB would walk past BH after one circuit and say, "There are more!" What BH had not noticed was that MB started 1.Nf3 1.g3 1.e4 1.d4 1.c4 in rotation, so if he didn't finish on 1.c4 he knew the number of boards was not a multiple of five... (I may have the order wrong but you get the idea.)