Joker poker

[Ben Purton]

What is going on in div 3, seriously another change of draw.

John I assume you defo have all 6 to face our 3rd team?

Ben

[Ben Purton]

Sorry but the 4NCL has become a serious poor event to try and captain in the final weekend.

I am a captain of numerous junior players who

i) are either at school and have a level exams
ii) are at uni(my generation most still have finals etc now- if not just end of years)
iii) Alot of my team working in the Gaming Industry, Bank Holiday May is a particularly big weekend for this industry as there are multiple large events on, alot of Football+ Guineas in horse racing being two massive events in this sector.

As its 3 game weekend my team have often adopted a "play 1-2/3" games depending on opponents. I do not know my opponents and its less than 3 weeks away now. Theres no real excuse, the very poor excuse has previously been they are "waiting for teams to withdraw". This policy is adopted because players cant commit 3 days of there lives at such a crucial academic period.



I was told last week that the 4ncl draw was done, Peter Sowray was NOT on holiday at the time, regardless of this fact , a group email would suffice.

I cannot understand this, its become a farce.

How many arbiters does the 4NCL have , 5? minimum? Jack Rudd is now an arbiter is he not?

If it takes more than 5 arbiters to do a Swiss pairing, I don't know how many it would take to change a lightbulb.

Youve cost me players, time, stress....

Ben

[Alex Holowczak]

I am a captain of numerous junior players who

i) are either at school and have a level exams
ii) are at uni(my generation most still have finals etc now- if not just end of years)

I've made this point about Megafinals (see a thread elsewhere), and it seems the other commitments of people who have exams are not that important, because they're such a small minority of the overall participation. I have a feeling your complaint on similar grounds will meet the same response.

Dave Thomas (who does the D3 draw) was away at the Staffordshire Congress this weekend, so didn't have time to do it. At various stages, he was on his laptop or otherwise, trying to do some 4NCL stuff, and liaising with other 4NCL officials who turned up. Apparently, it's non-trivial given he has to do it for two rounds at once. He said that you won't know the Division Three Round 11 game before you turn up on Saturday, because pairing three rounds in advance in a Swiss is too impossible.

Furthermore, there's a dispute involving one of the games. One team is complaining about the -1/2 they got for a default, which would turn a 3-2 1/2 loss into a 3-3 draw. So if he did the draw, then the protest changed the score to 3-3, he'd have to do the draw again.

[Ben Purton]

So one teams complaint means that every other team has to suffer,when has the draw not changed due to withdrawals?

Nearly ALL my team are students or have jobs which require weekend shifts. My team is being heavily effected by some team who did not field a player and are throwing the toys out at the clearly stated rules.

I expect the draw to be done already

Ben

[Ben Purton]

How also are they considered not important, is there not a university team, Barbican Youth, Ourseves, Sussex, KJCA all of which are junior based, Im sure there are more.

Ben

[Alex Holowczak]

Well, the response I got regarding the Megafinal was that for a tournament of 200 juniors, 20 or so over 14s are not a problem.

There are 64 4NCL teams, of which you listed 5 teams in total (I'm guessing you have 2 teams). So that's 10% (ish), the same proportion as above. As long as the other 59 teams don't have a problem, you lose the vote.

The 4NCL need a three-day weekend to play three rounds, so the early May Bank Holiday or the late May Bank Holiday will end up being used. The better of the two is clearly the early one. How would you suggest the 4NCL got around needing to play three games on one weekend, when usually only two days are available? Unlike the Megafinals, there's no real chance in the calendar to move the three-day weekend to another time of year.

[Ben Purton]

I think the same venue should be used.
Thats my core problem with lack of draw

[Alex Holowczak]

I see, you wish to swap players around your two teams accordingly, depending on who you have to play in each round. Seems a sensible enough tactic for a captain to employ.

The draw can't be done though until he knows the result, and one result is being disputed. You can't blame the person doing the draw for that.

Better this way than publishing the draw, then you arrange your tactical plans, only then to be told that they've changed due to the result of a protest, and have to cancel all previous arrangements and start again.

I'm pretty sure the people in charge want the draw to be done as soon as possible too; it's not their fault that it isn't.

[Ben Purton]

To be honest the complaint surely can be dealt with quickly.....I really think the excuses for not doing it are pretty thin, 2.5 weeks before kick off

[Brian Valentine]

Apparently, it's non-trivial given he has to do it for two rounds at once. He said that you won't know the Division Three Round 11 game before you turn up on Saturday, because pairing three rounds in advance in a Swiss is too impossible

My reading of rule 6.4 is that the May weekend in a non two day weekend (how else do you read it?). Hence only the Saturday matches need sorting and Ben has unknown opponents for Sunday and Monday.

[Ben Purton]

> Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 00:08:20 +0100
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]; [email protected]
> Subject: 4ncl div 3 draw
>
> Dear Ben and Richard
>
> You have both asked recently when the Division 3 draw will be made. It has
> now been done for rounds 9 and 10 and should appear on the website tomorrow.
>
> Regards
>
> Neville Belinfante

[Alex Holowczak]

Apparently, it's non-trivial given he has to do it for two rounds at once. He said that you won't know the Division Three Round 11 game before you turn up on Saturday, because pairing three rounds in advance in a Swiss is too impossible

My reading of rule 6.4 is that the May weekend in a non two day weekend (how else do you read it?). Hence only the Saturday matches need sorting and Ben has unknown opponents for Sunday and Monday.

I wasn't reading the rule, I went on what I was told.

I seem to remember that since the Sunday round starts at 1pm, there is more time to do the draw for Round 11, so Rounds 9 and 10 are done now (as Neville seems to have confirmed), and Round 11 is done on Sunday night.

[Sean Hewitt]

Apparently, it's non-trivial given he has to do it for two rounds at once. He said that you won't know the Division Three Round 11 game before you turn up on Saturday, because pairing three rounds in advance in a Swiss is too impossible

My reading of rule 6.4 is that the May weekend in a non two day weekend (how else do you read it?). Hence only the Saturday matches need sorting and Ben has unknown opponents for Sunday and Monday.

Brian is correct. Rule 6.4 only provides for both rounds to be drawn in advance when it is a two day weekend. This is a three day weekend so 6.4 does not apply. Consequently only Round 9 should be drawn. This makes sense as you would want the top teams to be playing each other in Round 10.

[Alex Holowczak]

Consequently only Round 9 should be drawn.

Then why has Neville sent Ben an e-mail saying the draw for Rounds 9 and 10 will be available online tomorrow? Perhaps nothing more innocent than a typo...

[Brian Valentine]

The rule does not actually say what happens on a non "two-day weekend (sic)". So I guess they can do what they like. Although Sean and I have made the most obvious assumption.