4NCL North 2014-15

[MartinCarpenter]

Lots of sympathy. It must be a horrible job

With 12 places I'd think decent chances for someone to sneak into 3S under 13 points? Once you remove 3 3S teams as being promoted and the 3N teams, Surbiton are 10th in line on 10, then 7 eligible teams on 9.

It'll really depend on how well the various 3N teams in/around that score bracket - there's rather a lot of them - do against their southern counterparts. Mostly 50/50 on paper I'd think. Hope Leeds Uni OB make it.

[Roger de Coverly]

With 12 places I'd think decent chances for someone to sneak into 3S under 13 points?

Is 3S to be an All Play All? I had thought the idea was to split the Southern entrants for 2015-16 into two Swiss divisions. You would need flexibility because if you are promoting two from 3S and two from 3N, then in many years you wouldn't get the same split among the relegated teams.

[Neil Graham]

With 12 places I'd think decent chances for someone to sneak into 3S under 13 points?

Is 3S to be an All Play All? I had thought the idea was to split the Southern entrants for 2015-16 into two Swiss divisions. You would need flexibility because if you are promoting two from 3S and two from 3N, then in many years you wouldn't get the same split among the relegated teams.

From an e-mail from Mike Truran:-

Division 3 South will consist of sixteen six-player teams, and the regulations and structure will be similar to those in Divisions 1 and 2. Places in the Division will be offered to the teams relegated from Division 2 and to the highest placed teams in Division 3 which took part in Division 3 South in season 2014-2015. Team Managers must be aware that there is a commitment that any team in the new Div 3 South will be required to play in all 11 rounds. If this commitment cannot be given, a manager should opt for Division 4 South.

[Roger de Coverly]

Division 3 South will consist of sixteen six-player teams, and the regulations and structure will be similar to those in Divisions 1 and 2.

What happens in 2016-17 if there are not exactly two teams relegated from division 2 able to take up places in division 3S?

[MartinCarpenter]

Promote more/less from Div4 I imagine?

If you started promoting 2 Div3N teams from next season then you'd get 2 coming down on a regular basis soon enough! NE1 look capable of staying in Division 2 for a fair while, but the other teams would be facing a definite struggle.

As DCA showed of course, far from a hopeless one (especially with the odd reinforcement!), but not easy.

[Mick Norris]

Of the 3N teams this weekend, best performers were MM3 (4/4) - not often we can say that!

We have done well in the combined rounds in the past - when we had only 1 (rubbish) team, season 1 at Hinckley Island was W, W, D - season 2 was D, W, W, W, W - season 3 was W, D, D, L, D with the loss against 3Cs 2

Last season, our (rubbish) 2nd team played only the final weekend at Daventry, results were D, W, W

Our third team is better this year (obviously we now have half-decent first and second teams), so I wasn't surprised about winning both matches (as we had the advantage of not having me playing )

The next weekend will be harder, of course, but we have hope

I think Cheddleton 2 have a chance of getting promoted, they seem pretty consistent, it would be good to see 2 northern teams go up, hopefully NE1 will have a strong enough team to ensure they stay in the top 4

[David Robertson]

Ched 2 won't go up. They won't do what they've never managed before (afaik) with the same players. That said, Ched 2 could go up if that is what the Chedderton squad desired. It would only require some from Ched 1, presuming them safe in Div 1, to descend to give Ched 2 a push over the final weekend. That is something the Chedderton guys have never done - in my opinion, to their great credit. By the same token, White Rose appear to leave their Div 2 team to its own devices - again, to their credit.

[MartinCarpenter]

If White Rose started messing about like that Jorvik would get an awful lot stronger quite quickly! Some very team orientated players in that squad
(Including the current leadership.).

Even when Ched1 have spares due to strengthening they seem to rest them instead of strengthening Ched2.

Great for Ched2 if they do sneak a promotion spot this year of course, although in some ways it'd be better for Div3N if they are about next season. Good to get as many realistically promotable teams for the first season of two up from an independent league as possible.

[David Pardoe]

One of my concerns is that Div3 N could end up being depleted of numbers if teams keep getting promoted, and not replaced by similar number of relegated teams...
With the new structure, which I don't agree with, playing separate Div 3N is not so appealing.. ie, the finals play-off rounds, where N & S meet head to head, I believe adds real value for all concerned. Failing that, just having one grand finals weekend, even spread over two hotels, is a good option, if it could be arranged. Yes, the northern venues are very good, and the variety does give it bonus points..
Yes, it will be interesting to see which new locations appear on next years calendar...and yes, I can imagine trying to find suitable sites is not at all easy...
Meanwhile, if the Northern section could recruit an extra few teams, that too would be most welcome...

[Mick Norris]

Great for Ched2 if they do sneak a promotion spot this year of course, although in some ways it'd be better for Div3N if they are about next season. Good to get as many realistically promotable teams for the first season of two up from an independent league as possible.

Absolutely, there are clearly candidates in Bradford A, Cheddleton 2 and our first team, with a raft of teams not that far away from them

It would be good to see more teams, whether transfers from Div 3 S or new to the 4NCL, of all strengths in Div 3 N next season

[David Robertson]

trying to find suitable sites is not at all easy...

Indeed it's a big problem.

In terms I know you'll appreciate, Mike Truran has a mountain to climb. He'll need to throw the kitchen sink at it

[MartinCarpenter]

Well to go up, you'll need to win a bundle of 60/40 (50/50!) matches which requires excellent organisation/commitment. Stuff like really grinding out every chance, risking losing when required to try to save matches etc. Frankly even colour optimisation which I don't honestly like, but when you're dealing with such thin margins and a worthy goal.....

DCA A and MM1 are the teams you'd think you'd most count on for all of that, because they're most motivated by promotion. MM1 likely still needs a fair bit of time to bed in as a team though. So very new, and not really any other truly serious teams chess round Manchester for practice either. Not surprised MM2 have done well this season as their core must have played 50(100?) matches together in the Yorkshire(!) league for Calderdale

As for extra teams, well DCA could field a 'Jorvik 2', rather less sure if Jorvik will be able to

[David Pardoe]

trying to find suitable sites is not at all easy...

Indeed it's a big problem.

In terms I know you'll appreciate, Mike Truran has a mountain to climb. He'll need to throw the kitchen sink at it

I see `getting the balance of locations` right as a key point.. I`ve made my suggestions on that....Certainly anything that might encourage another Mersey army to join the ranks would be welcome, and keeping our friends on Tyneside and Teesside on-board would be no bad thing.. Perhaps something to encourage entries from North Midlands areas. Sheffield and Derby might be candidates.
I expect team captains have also made there views known.../been consulted? Maybe even recommended some local venues that they know......?

[MartinCarpenter]

Aren't we doing OK for teams from the North Midlands? Cheddleton 2/3 and Holmes Chapel obviously but also a lot of Chesterfield players in Spirit B.

Masses of players in Sheffield of course, but a big majority of the regular Sheffield Yorkshire league players (the obvious player base, if rather smaller) are in the 4NCL somewhere now. As with York, quite a few in DIvs 1/2.

[David Robertson]

I know David Pardoe annoys most of us with his tiresome entreaties to do this, that, and the other. I'll refrain from the predictable treatment his comments deserve, save to say that cluelessly jabbing his finger at a regional map of the North generates neither teams, nor organisers, nor credibility.

The following must be pointed out though: a number of us have done, and continue to do, everything possible to sustain a strong Northern presence in the 4NCL:

* in five years, the Northern League has been founded; sustained in the face of scorn (from Sean Hewitt and Roger de Coverly); prospered and expanded as Div 3N; produced a number of teams winning promotion to Div 2; and from next season, will become a key element in the 4NCL structure. In those five years, four of the 'founding members' (Spirit of Atticus; Manchester; Chedderton; and Bradford) have increased their representation; and another member has joined (NEE). Only one team has sunk without trace (Ferry).

* speaking only of areas I know best (Merseyside, Chester, Lancashire, NW), every player who is strong enough, and who wants to play in the 4NCL, is playing in the 4NCL; or knows who to approach if they want to. Spirit of Atticus alone has added the equivalent of a new strong team to its squad in the past year. Mick Norris seems to have swept Manchester and neighbourhood into his teams. Elsewhere, colleagues in Bradford and the NE have done the same. It's been a remarkable effort in a relatively short time by a small number of well-organised individuals - walking the walk, not simply talking the talk in here. And within 3N, it's created a thoroughly congenial community atmosphere

* moreover, one must not overlook the fact that the 4NCL (ie Mike Truran) had the courage to back the North against the naysayers; and kept the faith throughout. With one exception, the teams have rewarded that commitment with integrity and good faith.

Gaps in the market? Hidden pockets of neglected players? Beleaguered souls clamouring for a team? Tell me where (before you tell Mick Norris, please!)