Notts Results div 3 round 6

[Roger de Coverly]

There's some really strange results for the two Notts teams in round 6. The results are here
http://www.4ncl.co.uk/0910_div3results_ ... iv_3_22_30 - but not the explanation for all the penalties.

[Nick Thomas]

I think Notts defaulted 3 boards against Warwickshire Select and therefore suffered a 3 point penalty.

[Roger de Coverly]

I think Notts defaulted 3 boards against Warwickshire Select and therefore suffered a 3 point penalty.

Notts 2 as well against Sussex Smart Controls. I would have expected to see it reported as Player_Name (def) to make the default clear to the casual browser.

[Ian Kingston]

The defaults were caused by unexpected heavy snowfall in the Nottingham area that prevented several players, including me, from travelling. It was quite localised, but at 9:00 a.m., with snow still falling and more predicted, it did not seem like a risk worth taking. As things turned out the forecast was completely wrong and a rapid thaw set in - but too late to get to the venue.

I'm disappointed to see penalties being applied. I've read the rules and I see that bad weather isn't considered an acceptable reason for defaulting. Are teams really to be punished if players choose not to risk life and limb in dangerous conditions? My enthusiasm for the 4NCL has diminished somewhat as a consequence of this heavy-handedness.

[Alex Holowczak]

I'm disappointed to see penalties being applied. I've read the rules and I see that bad weather isn't considered an acceptable reason for defaulting. Are teams really to be punished if players choose not to risk life and limb in dangerous conditions? My enthusiasm for the 4NCL has diminished somewhat as a consequence of this heavy-handedness.

But by the same token, a lot of the Warwickshire Select 2 team travelled up on the Sunday (they weren't playing on Saturday), and didn't get a game. It isn't fair on those players who turned up just to win by default.

Were others in your team staying at home overnight? If so, they managed to make it to Hinckley, which would leave those in your team who chose not to travel with no real argument.

[Ian Kingston]

I'm disappointed to see penalties being applied. I've read the rules and I see that bad weather isn't considered an acceptable reason for defaulting. Are teams really to be punished if players choose not to risk life and limb in dangerous conditions? My enthusiasm for the 4NCL has diminished somewhat as a consequence of this heavy-handedness.

But by the same token, a lot of the Warwickshire Select 2 team travelled up on the Sunday (they weren't playing on Saturday), and didn't get a game. It isn't fair on those players who turned up just to win by default.

Were others in your team staying at home overnight? If so, they managed to make it to Hinckley, which would leave those in your team who chose not to travel with no real argument.

Since you don't know the exact circumstances that we found ourselves in you're not really in a position to judge us.

Two players stayed at the venue overnight. That left 10 to travel from the Nottingham area. Four succeeded in travelling because the conditions near them were not too bad - and strange as it may seem, the amount of snow varied quite significantly across the area. The fact that some players made it to the venue while others couldn't get there is a reflection of the differing local conditions, not that some of us made different decisions in identical conditions.

My own situation was this: I had planned to travel the two miles to the pick-up point in my partner's 4x4. She looked at the road and the route and decided it was too risky. That should give you an indication of how bad the conditions were: too bad for a very experienced and capable driver in a four-wheel drive vehicle. Still, a two-mile walk through the snow was a reasonable option. But when I spoke to the driver who was to take me to the venue, he said that he didn't think he could get along the roads near him. So my goose was cooked.

I'm sure the Warwickshire players were disappointed not to play. So were we. To us, however, it seems that we've been punished twice for the same (unavoidable) offence.

[Alex Holowczak]

I'm not judging, but the people on the ground would have had to judge to make a decision, so if people from Nottingham appeared, and some didn't, then they don't have too many options available to them.

[Ian Kingston]

I take your point. I'm not the captain but I will speak to him to find out whether or not the 4NCL contacted him for an explanation before imposing the penalty.

Added later No: we weren't asked for an explanation.

[Sean Hewitt]

I take your point. I'm not the captain but I will speak to him to find out whether or not the 4NCL contacted him for an explanation before imposing the penalty.

Added later No: we weren't asked for an explanation.

The rules are clear. A named player failing to show up incurs a 1 point penalty in addition to the default loss. Appeals in exceptional circumstances can be made but bad weather and travel disruption are specifically quoted as not being exceptional circumstances.

With those rules, I guess there is no reason for the 4NCL to ask what happened before applying the penalty. Whether it should be the rule or not is open to debate. I suspect it's become so draconian because of the ill feeling that the large number of defaults in 4NCL is generating and teams have become less tolerant of defaults.

I have sympathy for all sides here. Notts players clearly felt unable to travel at the last minute through no fault of their own. Their opponents turned up expecting a game of chess and were agrieved not to get one. And of course the 4NCL have a hard and fast rule, no doubt driven by demands from the teams themselves. Not an easy dilemma to resolve.

Out of interest Ian, did the Notts captain proactively inform the opposition captain(s) and the arbiters of the defaults at 9am when it became apparent that players were not going to be able to make it?

[Matt Harrison]

I note also that my son was defaulted in his match for Hackney. This was due to his grandfather suffering a fatal heart attack at 11.30pm the night before the match. He was too distressed to attend the match, and as I was our reserve player, we had to default a board.

Are defaulted games graded or rated?

[Sean Hewitt]

I note also that my son was defaulted in his match for Hackney. This was due to his grandfather suffering a fatal heart attack at 11.30pm the night before the match. He was too distressed to attend the match, and as I was our reserve player, we had to default a board.

Are defaulted games graded or rated?

Matt - I'm sorry to hear your bad news. Defaulted games are neither rated nor graded. And although your team would still lose the board by default your circumstances is one of the grounds for appeal to prevent further penalties (which is a fine of £20 plus a further default point) being applied. I am sure the 4NCL would be sympathetic if you emailed them.

[Ian Kingston]

Out of interest Ian, did the Notts captain proactively inform the opposition captain(s) and the arbiters of the defaults at 9am when it became apparent that players were not going to be able to make it?

A text was sent to the 4NCL, but to the wrong individual. Sadly, that individual appears not to have received it - which is believable, as I couldn't get a signal inside the venue.

Beyond that I don't want to comment on the specifics. More generally, though, one of the reasons that I like playing in the 4NCL is the excellent playing conditions, which until recently were rarely available elsewhere. Experiences such as this might just push me in the direction of allocating my scarce available weekends to other events organised at similar venues. I wonder which ones those might be...

[Richard Bates]

I take your point. I'm not the captain but I will speak to him to find out whether or not the 4NCL contacted him for an explanation before imposing the penalty.

Added later No: we weren't asked for an explanation.

The rules are clear. A named player failing to show up incurs a 1 point penalty in addition to the default loss. Appeals in exceptional circumstances can be made but bad weather and travel disruption are specifically quoted as not being exceptional circumstances.

I think it is the case that on at least one, and possibly two or three, occasions in the last couple of years the default regulations have been suspended on the basis of likely difficult travel conditions caused by snow. It seems somewhat illogical to suspend default regulations on the basis of forecast difficult travel conditions, but have no allowance for ACTUAL difficult travel conditions!

[Ian Kingston]

Indeed. The entry for 13/1/10 at http://www.4ncl.co.uk/archives.htm is evidence of the penalties for defaults being suspended because of potentially bad weather only a few weeks ago.

[Nick Thomas]

A text was sent to the 4NCL, but to the wrong individual. Sadly, that individual appears not to have received it - which is believable, as I couldn't get a signal inside the venue.

That seems extremely poor behaviour to me. You sent a text to a venue where you were aware that there was a bad signal. You didn't telephone a controller, attempt to telephone or email a Warwickshire Select player or captain (one captains phone number is on the website) or request an acknowledgement of your text (or if you did you didn't receive one). You should have been aware that "Warwickshire" Select players were likely to be travelling that morning, unlikely to be staying at the venue and probably leaving about an hour after you decided not to. Just sending a text defies common sense and good manners. Have you considered offering those who travelled a refund of their travel costs?