Cheating in chess
Re: Cheating in chess
Never mind failing to notice the distinction between casual and rated games are there not more causual sites than lichess & chessdotcom for tyros and their mums & dads?
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Re: Cheating in chess
"Unless the child concludes, as some have, that chess appears to be a game concerned primarily with accusations of cheating and is better avoided altogether."
I always thought that was one of the benefits of school sport - you soon discovered that some players and officials would cheat and you had to decide whether to carry on. It taught you something about life. Admittedly, that was secondary school, and in the case cited here, a big organization is making accusations against a young child, which must have been very upsetting.
I always thought that was one of the benefits of school sport - you soon discovered that some players and officials would cheat and you had to decide whether to carry on. It taught you something about life. Admittedly, that was secondary school, and in the case cited here, a big organization is making accusations against a young child, which must have been very upsetting.
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Re: Cheating in chess
I'd caution against any belief that all 7- and 8-year-olds are "tyros" at chess - but that doesn't mean they fully understand complicated rules.
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Re: Cheating in chess
Ian,Ian Thompson wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:27 pmWhat rule do you think the player was breaking? As far as I know there is no rule prohibiting someone from playing against a relative (or anyone else) who is a very weak player and gaining rating points by repeatedly beating them. So long as the mother was playing to the best of her ability that's within the rules, is it not?Matthew Turner wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:28 amThe player was breaking the rules, the system caught him and he was flagged. It was an innocent mistake and the player was unaware that they were breaking the rules.
This is the rule they were breaking
"2. Artificially inflating or deflating your rating. This is where a User purposefully loses, or has arranged with an opponent to win. As a result, the User’s rating will artificially increase or decrease."
From the terms of service here https://lichess.org/terms-of-service
Without seeing the games it is difficult to know whether there was evidence of 'purposefully losing' (for example just resigning after 5 moves) rather than one player simply playing badly.
I would also note that I could show you how Lichess worked without creating an account for you and beating you multiple times.
Re: Cheating in chess
You are in danger of arguing against yourself there, Roger.Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:39 pmI'd caution against any belief that all 7- and 8-year-olds are "tyros" at chess - but that doesn't mean they fully understand complicated rules.
Apologies to Roger - I was put off my stroke by typing while travelling on the Hayes line.E Michael White wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:10 pmJohn, judging by the first word and last sentence in your response, it seems you consider some word level delineation is appropriate or was it a typo ?John McKenna wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:38 pmRoget, you have pointed out on here a sad lack of parental reponsibility in some cases and at times acts of complete irresponsibility. You cannot expect the service providers to cater for all such things. A line has to be drawn somewhere.
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Re: Cheating in chess
You were doing what? Are you trying to kill your granny?John McKenna wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:57 pmI was put off my stroke by typing while travelling on the Hayes line.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.
Re: Cheating in chess
No danger of that, Nick, I am the oldest surviving member of my immediate family.
The building site workers mainly seem to have exempted themselves from masking so it is not without risk.
The building site workers mainly seem to have exempted themselves from masking so it is not without risk.
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Re: Cheating in chess
Come again?Matthew Turner wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:18 am
Let me take this analogy a bit further. The Maths behind the Regan tests and vaccine trials is essentially the same. So there is roughly a 50% chance that a normal chess player (playing without assistance) will play the computer move.
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Re: Cheating in chess
You can see Ken Regan talking about it hereAlistair Campbell wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:49 pmCome again?Matthew Turner wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:18 am
Let me take this analogy a bit further. The Maths behind the Regan tests and vaccine trials is essentially the same. So there is roughly a 50% chance that a normal chess player (playing without assistance) will play the computer move.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK4cHroH-Zo
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Re: Cheating in chess
Being accused of something when one is innocent is likely to be upsetting, to a major or minor degree, even for adults who can be expected to have had some prior experience of how the world works. I suggest that, for young children, the experience is likely to be worse, verging in some cases on the traumatic. I really don't want to respond further to the suggestion advanced in this thread, albeit by a small minority, that it's somehow the child's own fault through allegedly breaking some rule of which he or she was almost certainly unaware.Kevin Thurlow wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:36 pm"Unless the child concludes, as some have, that chess appears to be a game concerned primarily with accusations of cheating and is better avoided altogether."
I always thought that was one of the benefits of school sport - you soon discovered that some players and officials would cheat and you had to decide whether to carry on. It taught you something about life. Admittedly, that was secondary school, and in the case cited here, a big organization is making accusations against a young child, which must have been very upsetting.
I gave one example because the facts there aren't in dispute. I'm aware of a second case where a young boy played some games against his father and was flagged shortly afterwards. In this case, I can't be sure whether it was a similar situation - Lichess won't clarify - but it seems likely. These won't have been the only cases where children have innocently used Lichess [I don't know whether there are similar occurrences on Chess.com] to play rated games against parents or siblings. It's a matter of conjecture how many were accused of cheating as a result of this particular scenario alone but I'd guess that, worldwide, the number runs into hundreds.
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Re: Cheating in chess
"Being accused of something when one is innocent is likely to be upsetting, to a major or minor degree, even for adults who can be expected to have had some prior experience of how the world works."
I agree entirely. Some obnoxious manager at work told lies about me behind my back just before I retired and he got a fairly forceful email in return (which he ignored of course.) But it's worse for a child, as they probably expect life to be fair and people to be decent. Junior chess will soon knock that out of them.
I agree entirely. Some obnoxious manager at work told lies about me behind my back just before I retired and he got a fairly forceful email in return (which he ignored of course.) But it's worse for a child, as they probably expect life to be fair and people to be decent. Junior chess will soon knock that out of them.
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Re: Cheating in chess
From Perpetual Chess:-
This guy has been subject to multiple reports to Lichess. Here he is continuing to ply his trade 12 hours ago or so.
The truth is, you don't have to be very smart."If somebody listening has some very smart idea about some work around where they could cheat and get away with it, it is overwhelmingly likely one of us has already thought of it and has already investigated the way to catch it"
This guy has been subject to multiple reports to Lichess. Here he is continuing to ply his trade 12 hours ago or so.
The Abysmal Depths of Chess: https://theabysmaldepthsofchess.blogspot.com
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Re: Cheating in chess
Can someone explain to me why anyone cares what someone's lichess rating is?
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Re: Cheating in chess
It's not entirely clear to me, but I suspect it's at least in part due to:-
A lot of non-OBT players who don't have anything to compare so think LIchess is important
People not being able to play OTB and therefore having to use online as a yardstick
for some people.
I suspect for the most part people don't really care about the ratings per se but don't like a system - however inherently imperfect - being egregiously manipulated.
The Abysmal Depths of Chess: https://theabysmaldepthsofchess.blogspot.com
Re: Cheating in chess
The reasons why some people manipulate their OTB and/or CC grades and ratings have been gone into previously on this forum.
Online ratings are subject to the same thing but are more visible and can be manipulated at a far faster rate than OTB & CC ones.
Returning to -
"Being accused of something when one is innocent is likely to be upsetting, to a major or minor degree, even for adults who can be expected to have had some prior experience of how the world works."
Who is being accused and what of?
Things have moved on since this thread began...
Anonymous accounts are being marked or closed for violations. (Apart from a few top players who has been caught doing them using an a/c under their real name?) Cheating is no longer the accusation.
The solution that the service providers recommend is - get a new account and sin no more.
What's the problem - injury to anonymous feelings?