4NCL On-Line Season 3

Venues, fixtures, teams and related matters.
LawrenceCooper
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Re: 4NCL On-Line Season 3

Post by LawrenceCooper » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:30 pm

Nick Grey wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:59 pm
Is the 4NCL plan On-Line Season ends at Season 4? And otb starts in Autumn 2021?
I would hope that the priority is still to complete 2019-20 over the board as and when it is possible to host such events.

Over the board restarting may not mean the end of the online version.

Nick Grey
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Re: 4NCL On-Line Season 3

Post by Nick Grey » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:41 pm

I would hope that the priority is still to complete 2019-20 over the board as and when it is possible to host such events. 2 w/es july and august looks ok to me. I was hoping to play.

Mick Norris
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Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester

Re: 4NCL On-Line Season 3

Post by Mick Norris » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:00 am

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:30 pm
Nick Grey wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:59 pm
Is the 4NCL plan On-Line Season ends at Season 4? And otb starts in Autumn 2021?
I would hope that the priority is still to complete 2019-20 over the board as and when it is possible to host such events.

Over the board restarting may not mean the end of the online version.
Agree with the second bit; I assume the OTB resumption is for norm reasons?
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

LawrenceCooper
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Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:13 am

Re: 4NCL On-Line Season 3

Post by LawrenceCooper » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:50 am

Mick Norris wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:00 am
LawrenceCooper wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:30 pm
Nick Grey wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:59 pm
Is the 4NCL plan On-Line Season ends at Season 4? And otb starts in Autumn 2021?
I would hope that the priority is still to complete 2019-20 over the board as and when it is possible to host such events.

Over the board restarting may not mean the end of the online version.
Agree with the second bit; I assume the OTB resumption is for norm reasons?
From a selfish perspective yes but also to complete the final five rounds of the season and to avoid an off the board decision of who if anyone gets promoted & relegated, nominated for European places and wins the respective divisions.

Nick Burrows
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Re: 4NCL On-Line Season 3

Post by Nick Burrows » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:18 am

My expectation is that completing the unfinished season will be very difficult due to multiple teams disbanding and squads decimated. Perhaps this will be less of an issue in Div 1, but i expect whenever the 4ncl restarts it is going to look dramatically different.

Mick Norris
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Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester

Re: 4NCL On-Line Season 3

Post by Mick Norris » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:27 am

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:50 am
From a selfish perspective yes but also to complete the final five rounds of the season and to avoid an off the board decision of who if anyone gets promoted & relegated, nominated for European places and wins the respective divisions.
I'd imagine that will be down to what the participating teams want though; it might be different in each division

I'd suggest that with 6 out of 11 rounds played, if the season is stopped it might be better to say it was abandoned than try to award titles etc on points per game or some such basis, and start the 2021/22 season from scratch; it might be that some teams don't enter, so promotion and relegation may be skewed anyway

No easy answers
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

LawrenceCooper
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Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:13 am

Re: 4NCL On-Line Season 3

Post by LawrenceCooper » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:55 am

Mick Norris wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:27 am
LawrenceCooper wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:50 am
From a selfish perspective yes but also to complete the final five rounds of the season and to avoid an off the board decision of who if anyone gets promoted & relegated, nominated for European places and wins the respective divisions.
I'd imagine that will be down to what the participating teams want though; it might be different in each division

I'd suggest that with 6 out of 11 rounds played, if the season is stopped it might be better to say it was abandoned than try to award titles etc on points per game or some such basis, and start the 2021/22 season from scratch; it might be that some teams don't enter, so promotion and relegation may be skewed anyway

No easy answers
Agreed, difficult decisions ahead for those in the 4NCL. The last correspondence to captains presented two options; a 2020-21 season as normal or completing 2019-20 in March-May 2021. As neither of these will now happen we shall have to wait and see if they try to complete 2019-20 over the summer or dive straight into 2021-22 in the autumn/winter.

MartinCarpenter
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Re: 4NCL On-Line Season 3

Post by MartinCarpenter » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:10 am

Isn't doing anything over summer/early Autumn going to run into major issues with everyone being on holiday at once?

Less so in Div 1 I suppose, but I could imagine Div 3 having huge absences. Not sure where 2 falls :)

Ian Thompson
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Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: 4NCL On-Line Season 3

Post by Ian Thompson » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:40 am

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:55 am
Agreed, difficult decisions ahead for those in the 4NCL. The last correspondence to captains presented two options; a 2020-21 season as normal or completing 2019-20 in March-May 2021. As neither of these will now happen we shall have to wait and see if they try to complete 2019-20 over the summer or dive straight into 2021-22 in the autumn/winter.
Wasn't there also the suggestion at some point of completing the 2019-20 season with two weekends at the end of 2020, followed by a 2020-21 season starting in January 2021 and maybe finishing a bit later in 2021 that it normally would have?

That approach would still be an option, with the 2019-20 season finishing with two weekends at the end of 2021 and a 2021-22 season starting in January 2022.

Mick Norris
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Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester

Re: 4NCL On-Line Season 3

Post by Mick Norris » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:03 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:40 am
LawrenceCooper wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:55 am
Agreed, difficult decisions ahead for those in the 4NCL. The last correspondence to captains presented two options; a 2020-21 season as normal or completing 2019-20 in March-May 2021. As neither of these will now happen we shall have to wait and see if they try to complete 2019-20 over the summer or dive straight into 2021-22 in the autumn/winter.
Wasn't there also the suggestion at some point of completing the 2019-20 season with two weekends at the end of 2020, followed by a 2020-21 season starting in January 2021 and maybe finishing a bit later in 2021 that it normally would have?

That approach would still be an option, with the 2019-20 season finishing with two weekends at the end of 2021 and a 2021-22 season starting in January 2022.
I think it was this:
We have with great regret decided not to proceed with weekends 4 and 5 of this season's 4NCL, which we had hoped could be held in August and September. Given the continuing uncertainty caused by the prevailing Covid-19 pandemic, in our view the financial and operational risks both to the 4NCL and to Guaranteed Events are just too big to run the risk of proceeding at this stage.

We will be actively looking at two options for the future:

1) If over the board chess resumes in an orderly manner and in a way which makes running 4NCL weekends viable by late 2020 we will consider starting the 2020/21 season in November/December 2020 and continuing as normal in 2021. In this event the 2019/20 season would effectively be abandoned (so there would be no promotions or relegations).

2) If over the board chess does not resume in an orderly manner and in a way which makes running 4NCL weekends viable until 2021 we will consider holding the final two weekends of the 2019/20 season in March-May 2021, effectively 'losing' a season - assuming, that is, that a return to orderly over the board chess is possible even then. Please note that FIDE has given the option for leagues to extend beyond a year, and so any title norm opportunities would still be available in the event of option 2.

If there is a suitable gap in the calendar under option 2, we may look at holding a separate one-off weekend team event at some point.

We apologise for the continuing lack of clarity over future plans (other than the clarity that the 4NCL will not now resume until November/December 2020 at the earliest), but the 4NCL Board hopes that 4NCL captains and players will understand the difficulties that we face at present in making anything like informed decisions that do not entail significant risk at a time of such uncertainty.

Kind regards,

Mike Truran
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

LawrenceCooper
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Re: 4NCL On-Line Season 3

Post by LawrenceCooper » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:51 pm

It also seems inevitable that the planned league restructuring to 12 teams in Division One in 2021-22, 12 teams in Division Two in 2022-3 and Division Three being split into Midland, North & South regional leagues will need to be put back by at least one season.

Ian Thompson
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Re: 4NCL On-Line Season 3

Post by Ian Thompson » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:02 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:51 pm
It also seems inevitable that the planned league restructuring to 12 teams in Division One in 2021-22, 12 teams in Division Two in 2022-3 and Division Three being split into Midland, North & South regional leagues will need to be put back by at least one season.
If Nick Burrows prediction of decimation of the league is accurate, there might be an opportunity to do that sooner rather than later without having to relegate so many teams from Divisions 1 and 2.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: 4NCL On-Line Season 3

Post by LawrenceCooper » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:04 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:02 pm
LawrenceCooper wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:51 pm
It also seems inevitable that the planned league restructuring to 12 teams in Division One in 2021-22, 12 teams in Division Two in 2022-3 and Division Three being split into Midland, North & South regional leagues will need to be put back by at least one season.
If Nick Burrows prediction of decimation of the league is accurate, there might be an opportunity to do that sooner rather than later without having to relegate so many teams from Divisions 1 and 2.
Very true. Interesting times ahead.

Mick Norris
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Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester

Re: 4NCL On-Line Season 3

Post by Mick Norris » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:14 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:02 pm
LawrenceCooper wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:51 pm
It also seems inevitable that the planned league restructuring to 12 teams in Division One in 2021-22, 12 teams in Division Two in 2022-3 and Division Three being split into Midland, North & South regional leagues will need to be put back by at least one season.
If Nick Burrows prediction of decimation of the league is accurate, there might be an opportunity to do that sooner rather than later without having to relegate so many teams from Divisions 1 and 2.
There's an opportunity to do a reset on all of it, including whether travelling in the depths of winter should continue, or whether that's the time for online chess, and OTB could move to more favourable weather conditions (thus avoiding the M62 gambit in 4NCL North as well as the M6 Gambit in county chess)
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Alan Walton
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Re: 4NCL On-Line Season 3

Post by Alan Walton » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:24 pm

Personally speaking from a person who runs a team (especially a predominantly amateur team); I suspect it will be difficult reorganizing the same squad from 12 months ago for the continuation of the old season, and would probably need a good few months notice for a start date

There is a great opportunity for a restructuring of the league, I would scrap this season then plan for a new season starting in Jan 2022, with one weekend per month (finishing in June); and I also prefer returning to the 12-team all-play-all structure for at least the top 2 (maybe 3) divisions

Edit : Mick had the same idea by the looks of it

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