Cheating in chess

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:24 pm

The position quoted is sufficiently close to the opening that it could have arisen in the peace and quiet of his study, as Bronstein would describe pre-game preparation.

NickFaulks
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:34 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:46 am
Khalifman weighs in
The voice of common sense, not before time.
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E Michael White
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by E Michael White » Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:59 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:06 am

My only dispute with this characterisation is that, in my experience, after years of bolting bits onto a program there comes a point when even its creator may lose track of exactly how it works. In one of Ken's papers he speaks of 28,000 lines of C++ code, which professionals in the field tell me is a lot.
He should rewrite in APL or other more suitable language.

Matthew Turner
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matthew Turner » Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:06 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:34 pm
JustinHorton wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:46 am
Khalifman weighs in
The voice of common sense, not before time.
The translation isn't good enough to know what he is actually saying

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JustinHorton
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by JustinHorton » Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:09 pm

I have some sympathy for that view but I think we can be reasonably sure that he is dismissing, with no small prejudice, the views of the the guy in this video who he considers a liar. (We do not of course know how influential the guy or his video may be). And I think he locates an average of two "serious mistakes" in Maghsoodloo's eleven games. He does not find this to be a notably unusual level of performance.

Of course any Russian-speakers on the forum (are there any?) may be able to help us out.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

NickFaulks
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:42 pm

E Michael White wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:59 pm
He should rewrite in APL or other more suitable language.
Perhaps, but he is a hobbyist doing this in his spare time. It is a substantial task.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

Matthew Turner
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matthew Turner » Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:49 am

JustinHorton wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:09 pm
I have some sympathy for that view but I think we can be reasonably sure that he is dismissing, with no small prejudice, the views of the the guy in this video who he considers a liar. (We do not of course know how influential the guy or his video may be). And I think he locates an average of two "serious mistakes" in Maghsoodloo's eleven games. He does not find this to be a notably unusual level of performance.

Of course any Russian-speakers on the forum (are there any?) may be able to help us out.
So to summarize

We don't who the person is that Khalifman is dismissing (in terms of his role/influence)
We don't know what Punin is saying
We don't know what Khalifman is saying

It is hard to see this as a hugely valuable contribution for us at this stage

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JustinHorton
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by JustinHorton » Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:14 am

Matthew Turner wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:49 am
JustinHorton wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:09 pm
I have some sympathy for that view but I think we can be reasonably sure that he is dismissing, with no small prejudice, the views of the the guy in this video who he considers a liar. (We do not of course know how influential the guy or his video may be). And I think he locates an average of two "serious mistakes" in Maghsoodloo's eleven games. He does not find this to be a notably unusual level of performance.

Of course any Russian-speakers on the forum (are there any?) may be able to help us out.
So to summarize

We don't who the person is that Khalifman is dismissing (in terms of his role/influence)
We don't know what Punin is saying
We don't know what Khalifman is saying

It is hard to see this as a hugely valuable contribution for us at this stage
Well, we do have a fair idea of what Khalifman is saying, and we have some idea of what he says Punin is saying.

You may feel that's not a lot, but it's a little bit more than we had from "seriously strong players" of whose evidence and indeed existence we have no knowledge.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

Matthew Turner
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matthew Turner » Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:23 am

Justin,
So what is Khalifman saying about the position given? What is the relevance of the assessment going from +5 to +3? What does Punin say about that?

I have no idea whether Maghsoodloo is guilty or innocent, but Khalifman hasn't taken us any further forward at this stage

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JustinHorton
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by JustinHorton » Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:53 am

You wanted the matter looked at by "seriously strong players". Now you have that. You want anything further, I don't think I'm going to be providing it for you.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

Matthew Turner
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matthew Turner » Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:59 am

Justin,
I don't think anyone reading this thread this would be expecting anything useful from you, but it is nice that you've confirmed that yourself.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by JustinHorton » Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:00 pm

Well how very childish of you to say so, Matthew.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

Matthew Turner
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matthew Turner » Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:40 pm

For those interested in thinking about the evidence, you can see the game with the position Khalifman highlights here

https://lichess.org/mUCprySS#0

Move 26 White plays h5 when something takes d5 is best

Matthew Turner
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matthew Turner » Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:55 pm

Here is a game listed as one blunder given by Lichess (28....Rb6)

https://lichess.org/2uibzmNH#56

but is it really a blunder? (the time control is 3 0)

Matthew Turner
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matthew Turner » Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:07 pm

Three blunders this time

https://lichess.org/2uibzmNH#56

but none of them affect the result

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