Minimum Grades
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Re: Minimum Grades
I've just checked what he does with two totally new players via a junior event - a few cases here: http://www.chessnuts.org.uk/ny5/match.p ... =319356954 .
Essentially he seems to initialise both of them to start at a grade of zero. Unclear whether that is a reasoned piece of behaviour or simply what the software defaults to without information. Since ECF grades are fair game for inclusion this should just be for junior events and won't affect other peoples grades much at all due to the reduction of the impact for low weighted grades. I suppose that it could theoretically mess with the grades of said juniors though.
The overall weighting system in Yorkshire is easy - your weight goes up 1 after ever game and down by multiplying by 11/12 at the end of every month. (Except if your opponents weight is less than ten when it gets added with a fractional weight to make it count for less....).
Essentially he seems to initialise both of them to start at a grade of zero. Unclear whether that is a reasoned piece of behaviour or simply what the software defaults to without information. Since ECF grades are fair game for inclusion this should just be for junior events and won't affect other peoples grades much at all due to the reduction of the impact for low weighted grades. I suppose that it could theoretically mess with the grades of said juniors though.
The overall weighting system in Yorkshire is easy - your weight goes up 1 after ever game and down by multiplying by 11/12 at the end of every month. (Except if your opponents weight is less than ten when it gets added with a fractional weight to make it count for less....).
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Re: Minimum Grades
Here we are 8 years laterRoger de Coverly wrote: ↑Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:42 pmI would say that once the grading list went on-line a few years back, duplicate grades have been easy to identify and have been almost completely eliminated, the more so now that players with an insufficient game count to be published can be identified. But it's also down to league controllers and club secretaries to insist that match participants are correctly reported and not presumed to be new players unless they'd played no graded chess since 1994. The BCF had the mad idea in the mid nineties of using date of birth as an identifier. As this didn't work, they were obliged to use the more sensible idea of a unique grading code and encouraging people to know what it was and to quote it for tournament entry.Paul Dupré wrote:Another problem with the current ECF system is duplication (not so with FIDE - at least I've not heard of any), players with multiple grades. Several of my mates had multiple grades during the 1980's due to playing all over England. One even had and different name, because of his appalling writing.
Code: Select all
REF NAME CLUBNAM1 REF NAME CLUBNAM1
103023B Butcher, Brian J Church Stretton 181362G Butcher, Brian J Nuneaton
193653A Brown, Allan J Camberley 221644K Brown, Allan J West Bridgford
225418K Ivanishchak, Ivan Ealing/Acton * 262301J Ivanishchak, Ivan Wimbledon
131944K Hamilton, Graham Kings Head 254138F Hamilton, Graham Scotland
260477C Rabey, Carl Lowestoft 282486D Rabey, Carl South Bristol
246254A Johnson, David P Godolphin Helston 275619F Johnson, David P Guildford
254565C Choo, Jimmy Woodpushers (Norfolk) 262444J Choo, Jimmy Ilkley
114678G Lunn, Simon Ipswich 192444J Lunn, Simon DHSS
117632J Randall, Ryan Gambit 187708C Randall, Ryan Dulwich
165738A Shapland, David Albany 270228K Shapland, David Hebden Bridge
240420F Martin, Darren Gambit 269714C Martin, Darren Hoddesdon
145051H Farrant, James Guildford Co.School 273462L Farrant, James Southampton
259484F Watson, David University of Warwick 331030K Watson, David Southampton *
233393E Chapman, Nigel University of Warwick 251168L Chapman, Nigel Scotland
173507L Jackson, Oliver Poulton-le-Fylde 173983K Jackson, Oliver Welling
183398E Burt, Stephen Royston 905878D Burt, Stephen Portsmouth
194276B Platt, Andrew Wallasey 201859H Platt, Andrew Hull
181445L Kelly, D Southport 186898G Kelly, D Cornwall Juniors
180090F Smith, Thomas Poulton-le-Fylde 184700E Smith, Thomas Midlands Congresses
179101B Campbell, James Lincoln 259819L Campbell, James Yorkshire *
226604A Bedford, Joseph Bury St Edmunds (original) 229559D Bedford, Joseph Maidstone GSB
215343K Ryan, Louis Weston-super-Mare 223601B Ryan, Louis Basildon
257756C Lowry, William Coulsdon CF 261621L Lowry, William Downend & Fishponds
252783C Thorne, David J Wellington (Somerset) 295787F Thorne, David J Plymouth
263689L Dickson, Thomas Southampton University 285204E Dickson, Thomas Sportsman
268594C Sriemevan, Mathavan Peterborough 288537C Sriemevan, Mathavan Oundle School
308183H Peters, G Devon Junior 308828F Peters, G Clyst Vale Community College
308182F Tyrrell, K Devon Junior 308827D Tyrrell, K Clyst Vale Community College
I don't even know if these are all duplicates, I suspect not, but it took very little effort to find them. So, why do the ECF not spend some time and eliminate them. The ones on the right appear to be the second submissions.
Maybe someone could invent some software, where you can view the places where the games were played by both players on a map to see if there are any obvious links. Maybe Clyst Vale Community College is in Devon or somewhere close by. Oundle School could be in Peterborough.
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Re: Minimum Grades
"Oundle School could be in Peterborough."
It's a boarding school, so it really wouldn't matter where it was! And it's not in Peterborough, unless there's more than one school of that name... There's several "St Bede's". It would help the grading system if players and clubs reported movements. I did email Brian Valentine when I started playing in Somerset to confirm it was actually me.
I usually help identify players for the UK military championships, as (a) they frequently do not play much (b) they move around, even in this country, and (c) names can appear slightly different in different areas. And I think ECF might need a bit of help if John Smith plays a few games in Hampshire, then Johnny Smith plays a few games in Yorkshire, then two years later JA Smith arrives from somewhere hot and dusty/cold and wet to play in Gloucestershire. They might be the same people or two or three different people. And sometimes the date of birth is wrong.
Things have improved - I didn't get a grade when I started playing as BCF assumed that KJ Thurlow of Reigate Grammar School and Redhill was the same as KH Thurlow who had played for Inland Revenue for many years. It only took one phone call to sort it out, but I did ask if any checks were carried out.
It's a boarding school, so it really wouldn't matter where it was! And it's not in Peterborough, unless there's more than one school of that name... There's several "St Bede's". It would help the grading system if players and clubs reported movements. I did email Brian Valentine when I started playing in Somerset to confirm it was actually me.
I usually help identify players for the UK military championships, as (a) they frequently do not play much (b) they move around, even in this country, and (c) names can appear slightly different in different areas. And I think ECF might need a bit of help if John Smith plays a few games in Hampshire, then Johnny Smith plays a few games in Yorkshire, then two years later JA Smith arrives from somewhere hot and dusty/cold and wet to play in Gloucestershire. They might be the same people or two or three different people. And sometimes the date of birth is wrong.
Things have improved - I didn't get a grade when I started playing as BCF assumed that KJ Thurlow of Reigate Grammar School and Redhill was the same as KH Thurlow who had played for Inland Revenue for many years. It only took one phone call to sort it out, but I did ask if any checks were carried out.
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Re: Minimum Grades
I can confirm that Camberley Chess Club does not have an Allan J Brown as a current or past member.
No idea where that entry came from.
No idea where that entry came from.
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Re: Minimum Grades
"I can confirm that Camberley Chess Club does not have an Allan J Brown as a current or past member."
It could be that he played in a tournament and gave "Camberley" as his residence, not his club?
It could be that he played in a tournament and gave "Camberley" as his residence, not his club?
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Re: Minimum Grades
262301J
Ivanishchak, Ivan
M
Wimbledon
No games for a while. used to play London league.
Ivanishchak, Ivan
M
Wimbledon
No games for a while. used to play London league.
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Re: Minimum Grades
Clyst Vale Community College is in Devon, yes. It's in Broadclyst, a village near Exeter.
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Re: Minimum Grades
The two entries for David Shapland are duplicates, I believe. I played against him when he played for Albany and then spoke with him briefly (not while either of us had games in progress) at a County Championship Finals Day when he was playing for Yorkshire.
A few years ago there was a story of someone in the UK refused student finance because there was already someone with the same name, date and place of birth on the system. It was eventually resolved.
A few years ago there was a story of someone in the UK refused student finance because there was already someone with the same name, date and place of birth on the system. It was eventually resolved.
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Re: Minimum Grades
I know Allan J Brown - he is a retired Church of England vicar - he played regularly for Nottinghamshire & West Bridgford until recently. The duplicate grade (if indeed it is a duplicate) was active for three seasons about 20 years ago. In these circumstances it's not at all important to chase up this. Obviously if you have two entries for (say) Sriemevan, Mathavan it's clear that they will be the same person and should be amalgamated. Provided there aren't two current overlapping grading records I don't see this as a problem. The time taken to determine whether Thomas Smith (say) from Poulton-le-Fylde is the same one that played in a Congress somewhere is prohibitive. The grading officer for our local league has to be informed of the details of any new player who appears including any previous grade/club.John Upham wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:55 amI can confirm that Camberley Chess Club does not have an Allan J Brown as a current or past member.
No idea where that entry came from.
In another thread somewhere on here, the appearance of Graham Neil in Nottinghamshire caused confusion (and still does from time to time) when we were lumped together as one player.
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Re: Minimum Grades
"In another thread somewhere on here, the appearance of Graham Neil in Nottinghamshire caused confusion (and still does from time to time) when we were lumped together as one player."
Also a problem for some Asian names which get cited in different orders.
I do recall a grader deciding to merge Graham Bolt and Graham J Bolt one season, having failed to notice they had played each other (in the days when the grader got the actual results of games, not "Carlsen, M, played 10, 3000 grading points").
Also a problem for some Asian names which get cited in different orders.
I do recall a grader deciding to merge Graham Bolt and Graham J Bolt one season, having failed to notice they had played each other (in the days when the grader got the actual results of games, not "Carlsen, M, played 10, 3000 grading points").
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Re: Minimum Grades
My club (Letchworth and Hitchin) have a member called Jon P Barnes. 20 miles away, playing in the same league, St Albans have Jon A Barnes - they have played each other at least once that I’m aware of, probably more. And they’re both currently graded 147!
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Re: Minimum Grades
That reveals a shortcoming in the ECF Result File Checker. The current version will tell you there's an error if you have a result where PIN n played against PIN n. It won't tell you something's wrong if you have a result where PIN n played against PIN m and n and m have exactly the same details in the player list.Kevin Thurlow wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:24 pmI do recall a grader deciding to merge Graham Bolt and Graham J Bolt one season, having failed to notice they had played each other
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Re: Minimum Grades
The Bolt case was I think before computers got involved!
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Re: Minimum Grades
Okay, now I'm the Surrey (SCCA) grader which Neil Crosswell (Guildford) should I use.
144942E Crosswell, Neil * 192 1 192 Guildford (1 game Surrey league December submission 2019-2020)
269753B Crosswell, Neil M E 119 9 1072 Guildford (NEW player 2019)
Who is responsible for setting this player up as a new player, when he is clearly already on the master-list?
it was either the Surrey / Hampshire Border League grader OR the Hampshire Chess Association Congress grader.
144942E Crosswell, Neil * 192 1 192 Guildford (1 game Surrey league December submission 2019-2020)
269753B Crosswell, Neil M E 119 9 1072 Guildford (NEW player 2019)
Who is responsible for setting this player up as a new player, when he is clearly already on the master-list?
it was either the Surrey / Hampshire Border League grader OR the Hampshire Chess Association Congress grader.
Any postings on here represent the truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God,
...and by the way the world is flat.
...and by the way the world is flat.
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Re: Minimum Grades
Whilst a code starting 144... is one of the originals from the mid 1980s, a code starting 269... is by no means new and must have been lurking on the master list for years. So it was whoever was the local grader when new codes were allocated in the 26.... range. That's assuming there have never been two players named Neil Crosswell playing for Guildford,Paul Dupré wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:24 am144942E Crosswell, Neil * 192 1 192 Guildford (1 game Surrey league December submission 2019-2020)
269753B Crosswell, Neil M E 119 9 1072 Guildford (NEW player 2019)
Who is responsible for setting this player up as a new player, when he is clearly already on the master-list?
The correct identification of players nowadays is often down to whoever does or verifies the new player input for the local League Management System.