World Youth Trial 5th-6th March 2011

[Andrew Giles]

I know that in most and probably in all the girls sections (the U14 girls being no exception), there were a number of girls that were strong enough to take part in the trial but for various reasons are not there. The grandprix, grading list and trial last year give a better idea of the strength of girls chess in general. Clearly the large cost in attending the Worlds is an influencing factor in deciding whether to take part in the trial as are work and school commitments.

Yes, these were certainly all factors in my daughter Yasmin (U12) not attending again this year. I suspect Anna Wang is absent for similar reasons.

[Alex Holowczak]

Clearly the large cost in attending the Worlds is an influencing factor in deciding whether to take part in the trial

I think this was probably the vital issue.

You could recreate the World Youth experience by organising a trip to some European country in the summer, and getting your chess-playing friends to go with you. It'd probably be a lot cheaper than the earlier quoted £3000 to get to Brazil, too.

[Paul Sanders]

You could recreate the World Youth experience by organising a trip to some European country in the summer, and getting your chess-playing friends to go with you. It'd probably be a lot cheaper than the earlier quoted £3000 to get to Brazil, too.

I can thoroughly recommend visiting continental Europe and playing in some FIDE Open tournaments for a combination of excellent chess and cultural tourism. It is however a very long way from the World Youth experience.

[Alex Holowczak]

You could recreate the World Youth experience by organising a trip to some European country in the summer, and getting your chess-playing friends to go with you. It'd probably be a lot cheaper than the earlier quoted £3000 to get to Brazil, too.

I can thoroughly recommend visiting continental Europe and playing in some FIDE Open tournaments for a combination of excellent chess and cultural tourism. It is however a very long way from the World Youth experience.

What's so special about the World Youth that can't be recreated at the continental opens if you go as a group of people with other families?

Going to these Opens with friends seems to be very popular for the most interested 20something chess players.

I guess you lose a little on the coaching side, but I'm not sure that's the thing I'm missing in terms of gauging "the experience"?

[Sabrina Chevannes]

I think this was probably the vital issue.

You could recreate the World Youth experience by organising a trip to some European country in the summer, and getting your chess-playing friends to go with you. It'd probably be a lot cheaper than the earlier quoted £3000 to get to Brazil, too.

Oh Gosh, I had no idea this was the price to go. No wonder - I would never have been afford that.

This is the problem that I hate the most though and what I hope to achieve as Manager of Women's chess - to remove the barrier of money. It is a shame that some talented players don't get to achieve what they can due to not being able to afford it.

[LozCooper]

Here is the website for the tournament: http://www.wycc2011.com/

and the regulations are here: http://www.wycc2011.com/en/regulations/genreg.html

Whilst the accommodation looks reasonably priced for twin/double/triple rooms etc at around €700 per person whereas single rooms are €1200 I believe an internal flight is now required within Brazil due to the venue change.

[IM Jack Rudd]

Peter Purland talked to all the parents at the start of round 1. His comments were very informative. The ECF will contribute approximately £160 to the expensives of each player at the World Youth. The parental contribution looks set to be in excess of £3,000.

For me, that shows how ridiculous the policy of sending one player is. If the parent has to stump up over 90% of the cost anyway, we might as well just set a minimum qualifying standard and let anyone go who meets it, wants to, and can afford it.

It's figures like these that make me glad that my children opted for music (£200-£300 each to go on a one-week foreign tour) rather than chess. (Not saying they'd ever have been good enough, but I think the point is obvious!)

This is an official FIDE event, and those are known for inflated prices. I don't know if you could do an international Open for £300, but I wouldn't be surprised if you could.

[LozCooper]

I have just learnt that the players who qualified from the World Youth Trial were as follows:

U18B: Yang-Fan Zhou on tie-break (sum of progressive scores) from Victor Jones 4/5. Victor beat Yang-Fan in round 5. (11 players)

U16B: Brandon Clarke on tie-break (result of individual game) from James Holland 3/5. Brandon beat James in round 5. (6 players).

U14B: William Foo 4/5 (8 players).

U12B: Ravi Haria 4.5/5 (11 players).

U10B: Gorak Rajesh 4/5. (6 players).

U18G: Sheila Dines 1.5/2 (3 players).

U16G: Jennifer Ehr beat Chantelle Foster in a play-off after the girls had 1 win each and 2 draws in their first 4 games. (2 players).

U10G: Akshaya Kalaiyalahan 2/2. (3 players).

[Matthew Turner]

what was the tiebreaker?

[LozCooper]

what was the tiebreaker?

I was hoping you'd be able to tell me

I'll try and find out although it can't be the individual result in the under 18s so maybe sum of progressive scores. In the U16 it can't be sum of progressive scores so it could be the individual result As the under 16 was an a-p-a sum of progressive wouldn't be very fair so the above would be my uneducated guess.

[Alex Holowczak]

what was the tiebreaker?

I was hoping you'd be able to tell me

I'll try and find out although it can't be the individual result in the under 18s so maybe sum of progressive scores. In the U16 it can't be sum of progressive scores so it could be the individual result As the under 16 was an a-p-a sum of progressive wouldn't be very fair so the above would be my uneducated guess.

Could it be Sonnenborn-Berger in the APA section? This is generally preferred in APAs, but I have no idea if that was actually used...

[Jim Wadsworth]

For me, that shows how ridiculous the policy of sending one player is. If the parent has to stump up over 90% of the cost anyway, we might as well just set a minimum qualifying standard and let anyone go who meets it, wants to, and can afford it.

Agree with that proposed approach, subject to setting and publicising well in advance the "right" qualifying standard.

However given each country gets one subsidised place in the open and one in the girls section, for each age group where they send a player (the subsidy being "free" accommodation and I think also a reduced entry fee), one would need to determine whether to grant that cheaper place to the "best" player or - as I would advocate - setting a consistent price for all prospective attendees, effectively spreading that benefit across everyone that meets the standard and decides to go.

Note that at the trial this weekend Peter Purland did say to a group of parents that were a player to finish second or third in the trial, and if that player also finished in the top 3 of this year's JRGP, then s/he would be invited to the World or European Youth Champs. Would be at the player's discretion as to which of the two events they competed at. (The Board apparently agreed this policy last year, hence agreeing to two U12 players going to the 2010 Worlds.)

However that additional player (or rather their parents) would have to pay the "full", unsubsidised price charged by the organisers, and they would not benefit from any ECF subsidy either. For the Worlds this year Peter says he expects this would mean the cost for a player accompanied by a parent would be in excess of £4k...

[Peter Turner]

The extra cost for the additional player for the World seems to be:-

+70€ FIDE fee and 770€ accommodation

These costs seem to be getting out of control and very much it appears because of FIDE greed! It's a world away from my JD's time when the total cost for a player was about £450 and the junior budget plus some help from the BCF YCT paid all coaching costs. It must be vey difficult for PP to keep control of his meagre budget.

[Sean Hewitt]

The extra cost for the additional player for the World seems to be:-

+70€ FIDE fee and 770€ accommodation

Presumably plus travel which for somewhere like Brazil will not be cheap.

[LozCooper]

For me, that shows how ridiculous the policy of sending one player is. If the parent has to stump up over 90% of the cost anyway, we might as well just set a minimum qualifying standard and let anyone go who meets it, wants to, and can afford it.

Agree with that proposed approach, subject to setting and publicising well in advance the "right" qualifying standard.

However given each country gets one subsidised place in the open and one in the girls section, for each age group where they send a player (the subsidy being "free" accommodation and I think also a reduced entry fee), one would need to determine whether to grant that cheaper place to the "best" player or - as I would advocate - setting a consistent price for all prospective attendees, effectively spreading that benefit across everyone that meets the standard and decides to go.

Note that at the trial this weekend Peter Purland did say to a group of parents that were a player to finish second or third in the trial, and if that player also finished in the top 3 of this year's JRGP, then s/he would be invited to the World or European Youth Champs. Would be at the player's discretion as to which of the two events they competed at. (The Board apparently agreed this policy last year, hence agreeing to two U12 players going to the 2010 Worlds.)

However that additional player (or rather their parents) would have to pay the "full", unsubsidised price charged by the organisers, and they would not benefit from any ECF subsidy either. For the Worlds this year Peter says he expects this would mean the cost for a player accompanied by a parent would be in excess of £4k...

Hi Jim,

It was good to meet you at the weekend.

I'm currently contacting different federations to ask what their policy is and hope to be able to provide some information in the near future. Early replies suggest that every country is different