Junior Fide events Silver membership

[RobWillmoth]

Good morning All

We all know that there are to many juniors to list with with very low fide ratings compared to ECF, which causes all sort of knock on effects to them gaining norm opportunities when ready and the affect on adult fide ratings also being dragged down

I am very pleased that the ECF board has decided to allow on application for junior only fide rated events to allow members to be junior silver and not gold. This is a big win for the juniors and those parents short on funds, plus, the organisers not having to pay large game fee costs etc etc. As far as I am aware India has had junior fide rated events for a while and given their track record of producing very string juniors, I would say we are taking a good step in the right direction

This will be part of a bigger project looking at the bronze silver and gold memberships in order to attempt to find a better system for all members.

This is for info only, so I won't be replying to this but would appreciate the thoughts of others

Rob Willmoth - Chairman of EJCOA

[Kevin Thurlow]

"I am very pleased that the ECF board has decided to allow on application for junior only fide rated events to allow members to be junior silver and not gold."

Meanwhile ECF has decided I must have gold membership to keep my CM and FA titles, which I obtained with no financial help whatsoever.

[Roger de Coverly]

We all know that there are to many juniors to list with with very low fide ratings compared to ECF, which causes all sort of knock on effects to them gaining norm opportunities when ready and the affect on adult fide ratings also being dragged down

Does it help the problem of juniors with low FIDE ratings when they just play one another? What would help and is probably out of the question is for juniors not to come onto the FIDE list until they had gone through their improvement phase to be at least better than average, defining average as 1600. Alternatively a scheme where their old ratings could be forgotten and they are treated as new players.

The didn't come onto the FIDE list at low levels when the minimum FIDE rating was in the range 1800 to 2200. (It used to have a minimum of 2200, was reduced to 2000 and then to 1800. For a while FIDE ratings exceeded converted BCF/ECF grades)

[RobWillmoth]

Hi Roger
I have heard this argument before. It is not the case when junior player play each other as they do in the many junior only ECF tournaments. The best players increase much quicker. Yon only have to look at the top juniors ECF ratings compared with the others. I do agree though the process will never be entirely perfect

Kevin
Perhaps I am mistaken, if you have fide CM then that has nothing to do with the ECF regardless of membership?
Who in the ECF made this decision. Please contact me on [email protected] to discuss further as i cannot reply here in my role as an ECF Director

Regards Rob Willmoth Chairman of EJCOA

[Roger de Coverly]

The best players increase much quicker.

I think the point is that they increase by taking points off other juniors. Perhaps if the less successful ones never play adults, it doesn't matter.

[John Upham]

i cannot reply here in my role as an ECF Director

Rob,

Can you clarify your statement please?

Have you been barred by an ECF official from posting in this place as an ECF official?

[LawrenceCooper]

"I am very pleased that the ECF board has decided to allow on application for junior only fide rated events to allow members to be junior silver and not gold."

Meanwhile ECF has decided I must have gold membership to keep my CM and FA titles, which I obtained with no financial help whatsoever.

Really? I can understand that the ECF might be able to influence arbiters having their licence renewed or allowed to become unlicensed but do they have any power to influence over the board titles?

[Joseph Conlon]

"I am very pleased that the ECF board has decided to allow on application for junior only fide rated events to allow members to be junior silver and not gold."

Meanwhile ECF has decided I must have gold membership to keep my CM and FA titles, which I obtained with no financial help whatsoever.

It's not that long ago I obtained my CM title. I had to (re)join the ECF for the first time in 15 years to do so, but they were happy for me to rejoin as a Bronze member for the duration of that year, and then submit the application to FIDE.

[Andrew Martin]

If he speaks, he is in big trouble.

[Kevin Thurlow]

Thanks Joseph, it seems I was talking some sense!

Actually, if ECF wants to let juniors play FIDE-rated events with only silver membership, why not just have one category of junior membership? It would simplify things. Junior bronze and silver are £6 a year, gold £19.50 (i.e. the difference between gold and silver is about 4 medium coffees a year...) I assume you are not losing sufficient £13.50s to stop ECF doing non-junior things.

I have no idea how many juniors fit in each category, but you could work out total income, divide it by number of players, (obviously someone knows that), round the total to something sensible, and charge that.

[John Swain]

The details may be seen in the Board minutes from 23 September:

11.ECF Junior Membership Fees for FIDE Rated Events
The Board discussed arrangements for ECF membership fees for juniors.
Concern had been expressed by RW that the requirement for Gold membership
discouraged some of our strongest juniors from competing in FIDE events and
that this distorted their FIDE ratings, resulting in them being excluded from
invitations to play in FIDE events, restricting their scope for obtaining norms,
and developing their international chess careers.
It was recognised that this was a problem resulting from the overall structure of
the ECF membership scheme, which disincentives adult members as well as
juniors from playing in congresses (if Bronze members) and FIDE rated
congresses (if Silver members).
It was also recognised that although there was an immediate issue to be
addressed for juniors it would not be right to make a formal change to existing
membership scheme arrangements, and that the more fundamental issue to be
addressed was whether the membership scheme itself was designed in such a
way as to encourage local league players to play in congresses, and to
encourage players in ECF rated congresses to play in FIDE rated congresses..
Commented [SW1]: May I check who is going to write to
the organisations to notify them of this?
Commented [MT2R1]: Done.
Accordingly, two resolutions were passed (the first unanimously, and the
second through a majority decision):
(i) MT should lead a review of the structure and operation of the ECF
membership scheme. It is likely that this would result in a consultation
process, with any substantive changes needing to be discussed with and
approved by Council.
(ii) The Board would consider applications from organisers of junior FIDE
rated events requesting Junior Silver rather than Junior Gold
membership as the requirement for their events.

Source: https://www.englishchess.org.uk/wp-cont ... ebsite.pdf

[Roger de Coverly]

The details may be seen in the Board minutes from 23 September:

It was recognised that this was a problem resulting from the overall structure of
the ECF membership scheme, which disincentives adult members as well as
juniors from playing in congresses (if Bronze members) and FIDE rated
congresses (if Silver members).

A radical solution would be to scrap the concept of requiring membership as an implied condition of playing in Congresses, or for that matter Leagues. Just make membership optional for those who wish to support the ECF, equivalent to Platinum membership as currently constituted.