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J T Melsom
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Re: News

Post by J T Melsom » Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:21 pm

Roger can ask Tim Wall all those difficult unanswered questions in person this evening. :)

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Stephen Westmoreland
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Re: News

Post by Stephen Westmoreland » Fri Jul 09, 2021 8:19 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:09 pm
Stephen Westmoreland wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:16 pm
Hi Mick,
I really do think so and spoke at length (probably slightly incoherently after my COVID jab) on this.
My youngest plays Rugby Union and my wife is the U10s manager. Each year they do a tour, which involves an over night stay, watching a game, training and a match. Funds are raised throughout the year from raffles, making breakfasts and chasing sponsorship. The money from the Sponsors goes into the Tour and provided a match shirt that the kids wear. There are spots to advertise on the back, front and arms.
The kids wear the shirts at training the next year and socially; supporting the sponsors. I have a shirt myself (which I modelled during the meeting).
Replace this idea with a tour into a rapidplay for example, a stop over at some tree top nets (we did a Spy Centre one year) and we have a great way of raising funds and fostering team spirit. There is potential for bigger sponsorship depending on the event or the team (perhaps supporting play internationally).
It is also a great way to get parents involved in organising and fundraising, freeing time for the coaches to coach. Each week my wife sends out Teamers and Whatapps to the parent to see what children are coming and who is available for matches. It helps develop a community spirit around the team and parents (particularly the mums, who are fantastic for the u10s). The tours really bind the team together.
Thanks for the response Stephen, and interesting to hear about this

My own chess club meets in a Sports Club which also hosts rugby, cricket and squash, so there is a chance tangentially to learn from them (although I say meets, I should say met, as the venue hasn't been available to us for over a year now, but hopefully will be open again during the week soon)

There's definitely a case for packaging up chess, either nationally or locally, to get sponsorship, but it isn't easy to get agreement from the various stakeholders
I think it needs a local push initially. No reason why it cannot be done nationally though. It would be very attractive for big companies to sponsor national junior teams.
HDCA President

Andrew Varney
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Re: News

Post by Andrew Varney » Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:11 pm

I'm really pleased that this thread has turned to a lot more positive discussion after unfortunate negative posts that I do not believe represent the underlying sentiments of either "side" in the argument. As another of "the team" involved in co-ordinating EJCOA, I would not have wanted to be involved if I thought it was an organisation which was set up to undermine the ECF nor if it were to be about particular people. I'm involved with the organisation for just some of the reasons expressed in the last few posts on this thread. From all I have seen in junior chess over the years, I believe that it is SO important to have the connections from schools and clubs, through local level organisations to national and international level. Local coaches and organisers are key to this. Achieving at the top level is dependent on a connection from ground level up, and it is this that I see EJCOA providing in various ways. By working together we can offer the opportunities at the appropriate level for every individual.

I am excited about what EJCOA has been discussing and is starting to implement to train chess tutors and coaches at the appropriate level. I am excited about the possibilities of connection through local and regional level as a loosely co-ordinated (although far from uniform) group. I am hopeful that as a group we can contribute to the English junior chess scene collaboratively in the future to reach and encourage children who would otherwise miss out due to social or economic factors, whether that be learning to play in the first place or achieving their potential to reach the top. Clearly EJCOA is not a panacea, but the collaborative approach I believe is a step in the right direction.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: News

Post by Roger Lancaster » Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:46 pm

The ECJOA Board's stated objectives run as follows:

- To restore English junior chess to the position of one of the world’s leading chess nations, with the goal of producing 5 new GMs and 10 new IMs over the next 10 years;

- To develop junior chess at all levels, from junior clubs and schools all the way up to national level, with equal opportunities for all girls and boys, regardless of gender, ethnicity, social and educational background or any other circumstances;

- To develop high-quality coaching and chess education for juniors and adults at all levels, and provide professional training for coaches, working closely together with the European Chess Union and the FIDE Trainers Commission.

- To provide all girls and boys with the opportunity to play and study chess to the level that suits them.

That's all fine but is anyone seriously suggesting that, under the status quo, virtually identical objectives are not being followed? Moreover, whether expressed by the ECJOA Board or the incumbent management it's seeking to evict, these are little more than platitudes - the test is whether the job gets done. All the ECJOA Board appears to be saying is that they would be better at it - and that's a claim rather than a fact.

Despite the denials, it's extremely difficult to avoid the conclusion that this is an attack on ECF director Alex Holowczak. I've had disagreements with Alex over the years - occasionally publicly as in the case, discussed on this forum, of the accuracy of online anti-cheating mechanisms - but I would find it very hard to denigrate the time and effort Alex puts into his work or his overall competency. In saying that, I'm echoing the views of several others here.

To the ECJOA's credit, and here again I'm echoing the views of others, there have been some useful initiatives to improve the quality of coaching [although that's not uniquely a junior matter] but that's only one-half of its remit and I've yet to see any results on the "JO" side. It's true that junior events are being organised but, as far as I am aware, they are events which would have gone ahead whether the ECJOA existed or not. And the event numbers suggest that most ECJOA members are "Cs" rather than "JOs" which may be a relevant consideration if we're debating how junior chess is best organised.

On the organisational front, there are one or two useful things the ECJOA might have done and might yet do. One that comes quickly to mind is to resolve the free-for-all which results in different organisers arranging competing events for the same date. One need only look at the weekend of 17-18 July to find UKCC gigafinals in direct competition with CSC-arranged ChessFest to the detriment of a couple of smaller events arranged over that weekend.

This problem follows from the fact that two or more organisers can, unbeknown to one another, plan events for clashing dates. By the time that organiser A publicly announces his or her intention, organiser B is so far advanced that he or she would lose more by pulling out than by going ahead. What's needed, it seems to me, is a organisers' clearing-house where they can advertise that they're looking to hold, but haven't yet finalised full details of, an event on a particular day or days - that would warn other organisers of a potential clash. Obviously that would need policing to prevent the odd rogue organiser from trying to reserve all 52 weekends but, by comparison with its four rather more ambitious objectives, that's something useful which the ECJOA Board should easily be able to achieve. In fact, with all that brain power, I'd hope they can improve the idea.

J T Melsom
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Re: News

Post by J T Melsom » Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:52 pm

Obviously dialogue between chess organisers can be a source of valuable assistance to those organisers, but the EJCOA is by its own statements more than that. We are trying to understand what it is and why it proposes to run candidates for ECF posts rather than work collaboratively with the incumbents, but Tim Wall a senior member of the body which aims for transparency won't answer questions in this place. In the absence of those answers i'm left thinking these platitudes are simply the words of useful idiots. There is an unfortunate history of this in English chess. i'd be delighted to be proved wrong, but i'm not convinced.

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John Upham
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Re: News

Post by John Upham » Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:56 pm

J T Melsom wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:52 pm
Tim Wall a senior member of the body which aims for transparency won't answer questions in this place. In the absence of those answers i'm left
It would be useful to list the ECF Directors who are keen to answer questions in this place.
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J T Melsom
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Re: News

Post by J T Melsom » Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:58 pm

Why - those Directors are not publishing proposals in this place. If you promote something in this place, then it is not unfair to answer questions about it.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: News

Post by Roger Lancaster » Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:14 pm

J T Melsom wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:52 pm
Obviously dialogue between chess organisers can be a source of valuable assistance to those organisers, but the EJCOA is by its own statements more than that. We are trying to understand what it is and why it proposes to run candidates for ECF posts rather than work collaboratively with the incumbents, but Tim Wall a senior member of the body which aims for transparency won't answer questions in this place. In the absence of those answers i'm left thinking these platitudes are simply the words of useful idiots. There is an unfortunate history of this in English chess. i'd be delighted to be proved wrong, but i'm not convinced.
I wouldn't disagree although it seems obvious that one useful early task of an organisation which claims to represent junior organisers would be to promote co-operation between those organisers. As to the other point, I confess to being a little tired of those forumites [I'm not going to name names but there's more than one] who post something but then, when challenged, either won't answer or are simply abusive. My strong impression is that regular abuse is the reason why some ECF directors, who not so long ago were willing to post here, no longer do so.

J T Melsom
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Re: News

Post by J T Melsom » Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:18 pm

Roger

Spot on.

NickFaulks
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Re: News

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:51 pm

J T Melsom wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:52 pm
We are trying to understand what [ EJCOA ] is and why it proposes to run candidates for ECF posts rather than work collaboratively with the incumbents, but Tim Wall a senior member of the body which aims for transparency won't answer questions in this place.
He did though, before running away. When Joseph Conlon asked a perfectly reasonable and civil question, he received the following comprehensive response, which was seen by many people before being quietly edited out of existence.

Rob Willmoth has stressed his organisation's desire to work constructively with the rest of the English chess community, so it would be interesting to know how he reconciles those sentiments with his Vice-Chairman's more combative approach.
Last edited by Carl Hibbard on Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Joseph and Tim agreed the issue was closed so this post was edited.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: News

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:03 am

NickFaulks quoting someone else wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:51 pm
All I know about Mr. Conlon
I thought it well known that Joe (as he was known in his younger years) is now Professor of Strings at Oxford University and only moonlights as a chess organiser on behalf of his children, Strings in this context is something cutting edge in Theoretical Physics.

David Sedgwick
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Re: News

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:29 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:03 am
I thought it well known that Joe (as he was known in his younger years) is now Professor of Strings at Oxford University and only moonlights as a chess organiser on behalf of his children, Strings in this context is something cutting edge in Theoretical Physics.
I remember Joseph, or Joe, Conlon, from about twenty-five years ago, when he was one of the most talented and respected juniors of his generation. Junior chess is not and never has been my field, but he played in a few events at which I officiated, in particular the Smith & Williamson Young Masters and the Varsity Match.

I knew nothing of his important academic position until Roger mentioned it. However, it is greatly to Joseph's credit that he is finding the time to try and bring back OTB chess, something which Tim Wall criticises others for not doing.

He has done nothing whatsoever to warrant Tim's vicious personal attack on him. The same is of course true of Joseph's near contemporary. Matthew Turner.

Joseph Conlon
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Re: News

Post by Joseph Conlon » Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:05 am

Nick (or moderators),

Please can you delete or edit that post to remove most of it. Lots of things appear on the internet around midnight that should be allowed to quietly disappear in the morning.

NickFaulks
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Re: News

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Jul 10, 2021 9:42 am

Joseph Conlon wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:05 am
Nick (or moderators),

Please can you delete or edit that post to remove most of it. Lots of things appear on the internet around midnight that should be allowed to quietly disappear in the morning.
Joseph,

First of all, I would not have disinterred the post had I believed it could cause you personal embarrassment, but it is such a poisonous and incoherent rant that I do not see how that is possible. The writer clearly did no due diligence on his target, and made an unlucky choice. There is only one person ( in addition to his handlers ) who can be embarrassed here.

You are inclined to give Tim Wall the benefit of the doubt, but for those who have been exposed to him for years there is no doubt - he has form for this behaviour, and not necessarily just around midnight. Generally he manages to hit and run, but on this occasion he has been caught on video.

The problem is that he is somehow a very significant figure in English chess. I am a Silver member, and he is currently one of my member reps and running for re-election. He talks a good story about taking the views of his constituents into account, but we have seen what happens when someone asks a question which he does not welcome. The real Tim Wall needs to stand up, in full view of every Silver member currently considering their vote.

There is also the EJCOA question. That organisation has embarked on a public campaign to unseat a sitting ECF Director, with strong but entirely unsubstantiated hints of improper behaviour. Tim Wall has been their designated attack dog here, before running away.

The moderators have the power to remove posts. I shall consider removing mine voluntarily when the following conditions are fulfilled.

1. Tim Wall offers an open apology to all Forum members for his unpleasant comments. What we have seen so far will not do.
TimWall wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:53 am
Paul, it's clear that I made a mistake in reading this forum. I think I'll just go back to real life, and ignore it in future.
2. The EJCOA makes a statement as to whether they still have confidence in their Vice-Chairman in the light of his comments.

I am sorry that you have been dropped into the middle of this, something you did not anticipate when you asked a simple question.

Best wishes,

Nick
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: News

Post by Roger Lancaster » Sat Jul 10, 2021 9:59 am

Joseph Conlon wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:05 am

Please can you delete or edit that post to remove most of it. Lots of things appear on the internet around midnight that should be allowed to quietly disappear in the morning.
An entirely reasonable request. I hadn't seen the original post, which was presumably removed when the author realised its foolishness, and it simply reinforces my opinion that - if one seeks to win friends and influence people - one would not seek its author as an ally. It's ironic that the author asserts that Joseph "would be far happier enjoying the democracy of North Korea, where they don't have to trouble with contested elections" when he himself earns a decent penny writing for Russia Today, owned by a state where Alex Navalny's fate says everything one needs to know about democracy there. As far as I can make out, the author is a respected writer for RT [although "respected" is relative when applied to RT writers] where presumably he has access to search engines which would have enabled him, if he had cared to make the effort, to identify Joseph before writing his "All I know about ..." sentence.

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