Junior OtB Standard (60+30) tournament - May 29-30th

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Wadih Khoury
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Junior OtB Standard (60+30) tournament - May 29-30th

Post by Wadih Khoury » Sat May 08, 2021 3:28 pm

Hi all,

I am organising a standard OtB event on May 29th and 30th. 5 round 60+30, at the Cheney School Oxford (same facilities used by Joseph Conlon's tournaments).
This event is open to all juniors (under 18 on the day of the tournament), though it is preferable that they are familiar with long play.
Maximum capacity is 32, and the tournament will be confirmed once enough participants register (I expect to be able to run it with maybe 12 players).

Details and registration form here: https://tinyurl.com/4m64mr23

Any advertising to juniors you know, advice or help is welcome.

NickFaulks
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Re: Junior OtB Standard (60+30) tournament - May 29-30th

Post by NickFaulks » Sat May 08, 2021 3:59 pm

Have you considered getting it FIDE rated?
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Wadih Khoury
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Re: Junior OtB Standard (60+30) tournament - May 29-30th

Post by Wadih Khoury » Sat May 08, 2021 4:35 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 3:59 pm
Have you considered getting it FIDE rated?
Yes I considered it, but then decided it would be meaningless at this stage. Most of the juniors are now 2 years behind the curve in terms of Fide rating, and any such tournament would only pass the points between them without increasing the size of the junior pool as it would have without covid.
In my mind, FIDE rated event will only make sense when adults are allowed back (I expect it will be quite painful at first for the adults, and some sections will have many accidental sharks).

This also applies to the new ECF rating to be fair, but given that there are many more ECF events than Fide, it will be much faster for juniors to catchup.
I will be telling the participants that their rating changes from the event will be mainly meaningless and they should not be focusing on it until adults are back.

NickFaulks
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Re: Junior OtB Standard (60+30) tournament - May 29-30th

Post by NickFaulks » Sat May 08, 2021 6:10 pm

Wadih Khoury wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 4:35 pm
This also applies to the new ECF rating to be fair, but given that there are many more ECF events than Fide
Well yes, but it's organisers with your approach who are keeping it that way. I'm not intending to be critical, just pointing out that the problem is self-perpetuating.
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Nick Burrows
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Re: Junior OtB Standard (60+30) tournament - May 29-30th

Post by Nick Burrows » Sat May 08, 2021 6:12 pm

Posted on the Oxfordshire Chess, and some local club Facebook pages. Pending, the Oxfordshire chess webpage.

Joseph Conlon
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Re: Junior OtB Standard (60+30) tournament - May 29-30th

Post by Joseph Conlon » Sat May 08, 2021 6:15 pm

Nick - can I respectfully suggest that, at a time when there are many extra barriers to organising in-person chess events, there should be no expectation at all for organisers - particularly first-time organisers - to go through the further hoops of having an event FIDE-rated.

NickFaulks
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Re: Junior OtB Standard (60+30) tournament - May 29-30th

Post by NickFaulks » Sat May 08, 2021 6:24 pm

Joseph Conlon wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 6:15 pm
Nick - can I respectfully suggest that, at a time when there are many extra barriers to organising in-person chess events, there should be no expectation at all for organisers - particularly first-time organisers - to go through the further hoops of having an event FIDE-rated.
What are those hoops? I'm asking because I genuinely would like to know.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Junior OtB Standard (60+30) tournament - May 29-30th

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat May 08, 2021 6:39 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 6:24 pm
What are those hoops? I'm asking because I genuinely would like to know.
Isn't there quite a long list of requirements for an event to be FIDE rated? Not being permitted anyone not recognised by FIDE as an arbiter involved in running it being one of them.

A full list is at
https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/B022017

Another is the financial demands of the ECF either for Gold membership or an equivalent payment.

NickFaulks
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Re: Junior OtB Standard (60+30) tournament - May 29-30th

Post by NickFaulks » Sat May 08, 2021 7:08 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 6:39 pm
Another is the financial demands of the ECF either for Gold membership or an equivalent payment.
True, that is certainly a problem.
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Wadih Khoury
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Re: Junior OtB Standard (60+30) tournament - May 29-30th

Post by Wadih Khoury » Sat May 08, 2021 7:35 pm

Just to clarify a couple of things:

- It's my first tournament, and yes Fide is more complex and more expensive for participants. I don't need more blocks to people registering (the pool of gold players is much smaller, and I do not want to administer extra payments to ECF/Fide/etc..)
- if it was an event including adults, I would have considered the steps for doing a Fide event.

The key for me is to give the opportunity for junior to play 3 hour games, without caring about points.

Joseph Conlon
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Re: Junior OtB Standard (60+30) tournament - May 29-30th

Post by Joseph Conlon » Sat May 08, 2021 7:40 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 6:24 pm
Joseph Conlon wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 6:15 pm
Nick - can I respectfully suggest that, at a time when there are many extra barriers to organising in-person chess events, there should be no expectation at all for organisers - particularly first-time organisers - to go through the further hoops of having an event FIDE-rated.
What are those hoops? I'm asking because I genuinely would like to know.
The additional hoops I would be worrying about are:

1. Does being a basic ECF level 1 arbiter qualify someone to run a FIDE-rated event?
2. How to ensure the event is registered with FIDE? How long in advance do I have to tell the ECF I want to FIDE-rate it?
3. What if juniors (some of whom may have become international standard over lockdown while having 0F grades beforehand) have no FIDE number? How do they get them and whose work is that?
4. What if said juniors are not Gold members? How do you ensure their parents register them as such in time?
5. If running a Swiss, do I have to be super-careful about pairings and not allowing 'avoids' between siblings?

Maybe these are all easy, and maybe not, but these are all additional points I don't know the answer to. If they are all easily solved, then I may start FIDE-rating my junior rapid plays.

NickFaulks
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Re: Junior OtB Standard (60+30) tournament - May 29-30th

Post by NickFaulks » Sat May 08, 2021 8:18 pm

Joseph Conlon wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 7:40 pm
The additional hoops I would be worrying about are:

1. Does being a basic ECF level 1 arbiter qualify someone to run a FIDE-rated event?
It does if they get themselves a licence by paying a small fee. I agree that is an irritant.
2. How to ensure the event is registered with FIDE? How long in advance do I have to tell the ECF I want to FIDE-rate it?
7 days.
3. What if juniors (some of whom may have become international standard over lockdown while having 0F grades beforehand) have no FIDE number? How do they get them and whose work is that?
The ECF handle that efficiently, you just have to ask.
4. What if said juniors are not Gold members? How do you ensure their parents register them as such in time?
Don't know, but isn't this the same question as making sure they are Silver if it is only ECF rated?
5. If running a Swiss, do I have to be super-careful about pairings and not allowing 'avoids' between siblings?
Not at all, games are individually rated.
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David Sedgwick
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Re: Junior OtB Standard (60+30) tournament - May 29-30th

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat May 08, 2021 10:02 pm

In my view, the biggest problem is the need to prepare a FIDE Rating Report.

If you are familiar with Swiss Manager / Chess Results, or some equivalent system, then that is simple and straightforward.

If. like me, you do not intuitively find these programs easy to understand and use, then you may have to resort to producing the Report manually. I am the self proclaimed world expert at doing this, but I don't find it simple and straightforward.

NickFaulks
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Re: Junior OtB Standard (60+30) tournament - May 29-30th

Post by NickFaulks » Sat May 08, 2021 10:16 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 10:02 pm
then you may have to resort to producing the Report manually
I did that once and still have nightmares.
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Adam Raoof
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Re: Junior OtB Standard (60+30) tournament - May 29-30th

Post by Adam Raoof » Sat May 08, 2021 10:40 pm

and if you ever need help transferring the event to Swiss Manager in order to generate the rating files, let me know!
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