World Youth Under 16 Olympiad

National developments, strategies and ideas.
Sean Hewitt

Re: World Youth Under 16 Olympiad

Post by Sean Hewitt » Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:41 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:Sean,
A lot of ECF Officials believe that the government grant was initially given to enable the BCF to set up an Office. I do not know if this is true or not - I assume that it is true. However, times change, if current ECF Officials believe that the government wish their grant to be spent on an Office then they should explicitly present the ECF accounts to government officials. They quite clearly show that the ECF have obtained matching (or nearly matching) funding to run the Office and they will be lauded for their enterprise. However, I suspect that when talking to the DCMS the ECF will continue to undreplay Office costs and choose instead to emphasise participation in events like the U16 Olympiad which receive no, or very little, ECF support.
I have no idea what the truth is in this matter, other than it all seems very woolly to me!

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Rob Thompson
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Re: World Youth Under 16 Olympiad

Post by Rob Thompson » Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:59 pm

I'll rephrase what i said about funding for this event - funding was available for the player that qualified via the grand prix. This was one of the main incentives for people to play in the Grand Prix. So there was some funding available, just a very limited amount.
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Matt Harrison
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Re: World Youth Under 16 Olympiad

Post by Matt Harrison » Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:48 am

Looks to me like with his wins in round 6&7, Yang Fan Zhou has just passed 2300, so can claim the FM title.

Leonard Barden
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Re: World Youth Under 16 Olympiad

Post by Leonard Barden » Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:34 am

I would rather prefer to hear that his target was 2400 and his remaining two IM norms.....I don't follow his performances that closely, but didn't he lose some rating points at the recent all play all in France?

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Re: World Youth Under 16 Olympiad

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:20 am

He lost 6 points in Dieppe according to this: http://ratings.fide.com/individual_calc ... 2009-11-01

Matt Harrison
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Re: World Youth Under 16 Olympiad

Post by Matt Harrison » Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:47 pm

I'm sure his target is 2400 and beyond. But I think he gained 16 points in rounds 1-7, which after the loss of 6 points in Dieppe, puts him on 2301.

Matthew Turner
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Re: World Youth Under 16 Olympiad

Post by Matthew Turner » Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:55 pm

We are drawn against Turkmenistan today. We could win this match 3-1 and face the very real prospect of finishing behind 5 Turkish teams.

Matthew Turner
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Re: World Youth Under 16 Olympiad

Post by Matthew Turner » Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:59 pm

This is the Turkmenistan team, so it looks like it will up to Akash to try to get us a 4-0

Turkmenistan FED
Nazarov Rustem 1892 TKM
Jorayewa Govher 2152 TKM
Ovezova Mengli 0 TKM
Berdiyev Govshyt 0 TKM

Leonard Barden
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Re: World Youth Under 16 Olympiad

Post by Leonard Barden » Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:06 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:We are drawn against Turkmenistan today. We could win this match 3-1 and face the very real prospect of finishing behind 5 Turkish teams.
Not Yang-Fan's fault, given he beat a 2500 GM. Fact is, the rest of the team are 180-190s and there were (contradicting a previous post) about six 200+ U16s who were not selected or declined.

Reverting to Yang-Fan, I question whether it is right for him to play events like the U16 Olympiad and World U16 where there will be several underrated opponents and no realistic IM norm prospect. Particularly if it is right that as suggested above his family has to fit an enormous bill for these events without the support he should be having from the John Robinson Trust.

I recall advising both Howell and McShane at a similar age that they should give norm tournaments strong preference over junior events until they could get into the U18 (IM norm possibility) or U20 (GM norm) age groups. It was easier for Luke to do this as he already had a world title at U10 level and David also took that course after a horrific World U14 where he shed about 50 Fide points..

Leonard Barden
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Re: World Youth Under 16 Olympiad

Post by Leonard Barden » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:35 pm

The good news is that England did beat Turkmenistan 4-0 and after the ninth round are only behind three of the Turkish teams. The less good news is that there is a tenth and final round tomorrow morning in which England plays Uzbekistan, a higher seed with an average rating 2153 to our 2077.

Neill Cooper
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Re: World Youth Under 16 Olympiad

Post by Neill Cooper » Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:17 pm

Leonard Barden wrote:Reverting to Yang-Fan, I question whether it is right for him to play events like the U16 Olympiad.
Yang-Fan is a committed team player who will play for the team rather than just himself. I've seen him do that for his school, where in a drawn ending he sacrificed a whole rook to get winning chances, as the score was 2- 3 with only his game left (he ended up losing to someone 50 ECF points lower). I imagine he has a similar approach to supporting his country. There is more to life than getting IM and GM norms and titles.

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Re: World Youth Under 16 Olympiad

Post by Matthew Turner » Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:58 am

I disagreed with Leonard's advice to Luke and David. However, I think the situation with Yang-Fan and the U16 Olympiad is somewhat different. Can this really be described as an important team championship when there are a bizarre collection of competing nations and 6 teams representing the hosts?
When Luke and David were invited to play at World Championships, their participation was heavily subsidised by the ECF and top quality coaches went with the team. From what has written earlier it appears the Zhous are having to meet the vast majority of costs themselves and the team is being coached by Charlie Storey, who is of a similar standard to Yang-Fan.

Leonard Barden
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Re: World Youth Under 16 Olympiad

Post by Leonard Barden » Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:02 am

Neill Cooper wrote:
Leonard Barden wrote:Reverting to Yang-Fan, I question whether it is right for him to play events like the U16 Olympiad.
Yang-Fan is a committed team player who will play for the team rather than just himself. I've seen him do that for his school, where in a drawn ending he sacrificed a whole rook to get winning chances, as the score was 2- 3 with only his game left (he ended up losing to someone 50 ECF points lower). I imagine he has a similar approach to supporting his country. There is more to life than getting IM and GM norms and titles.
There is also more than one valid philosophy. When McShane started at City of London, the school wanted him to play all the team matches. McShane's father refused. I think they compromised that he should play only the National Schools, where CoL were eliminated early. Howell''s parents turned down Eton and Winchester, where David was offered scholarships, again because time for chess would be limited and there would be commitments to the school teams. I think both were right.
As regards coaching at world juniors, McShane had coaching (paid for by a private sponsor) from Speelman throughout his teens, while Howell had a variety of GM coaches. Ths world youth events clashed directly with Isle of Man where Howell had better chances to improve his rating and go for an IM norm.
As I appear to be being lectured about school teams, I should add that I went to the same school as Yang-Fan. In my time Whitgift was generally recognised as having the best team in England and was awarded the BCF school shield (then only one per year). Our team won the London Schools League (beating Wilson's, then based in Camberwell, en route) and won the Briant-Poulter Shield for south London/Surrey schools with 100 per cent. The excellent master in charge of chess was LJ Russell, whose name lives on in Surrey's Russell event.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: World Youth Under 16 Olympiad

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:47 am

That must be right. Unless the scholarship is explicitly attached to chess, in which case obviously the school may argue that there is a quid pro quo as far as the school team is concerned, the primary concern of the school should be the welfare and development of the gifted prodigy. Not the collection of another trophy to boast about in the school newsletter or to show to other would-be parents when they tour the school.

This brings us back to another thread where I suggested that there is really very little point in asking our outstanding young players to "qualify" to play for England for the World u-14 or u-16 etc when they are already 30 or whatever grading points higher than the rest of their age group. These players need reputable opposition all the time.

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Re: World Youth Under 16 Olympiad

Post by Alex Holowczak » Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:31 am

It seems to be a constant moan that few juniors are playing chess, and that not a lot of juniors are playing chess in schools. Juniors aren't likely to if their best player never plays for them. If he doesn't care, why should they? Also, if you attend his school and are graded 100andsomething and want to improve, they have a great opportunity to learn from him. That can potentially result in an improved standard of the club players of the future. Playing for the school won't harm his Elo rating, so I can't see any problem at all with playing for the school.