"SavetheUKCC" petition

[Michael Flatt]

Run under new management [the UKCC] could be as successful as before but until the ECF (or someone else) steps in to sort out all this rest assured all the wringing of hands or writing of petitions will assuredly come to nothing.

I’m quite sure that somebody could replicate the UKCC - although whether that somebody could be the ECF* is not immediately clear to me.
I’m also quite sure that Basman’s contacts/mailing list/experience would take some time to match if rebuilding from scratch.

I’ve no idea what Bazza intends to do - but I’ve seen nothing that indicates that he wants or intends to hand the UKCC to somebody else.

Anyhoo, what exactly do you have in mind when you talk about the ECF (or someone else) stepping in? To return to my earlier question, If Mr B is not involved what exactly is it that the "new management" are taking over? If he is, what exactly does "step[ing] in to sort out all this" mean?

* I’m quite sure that individual(s) within the ECF could do it if they wished. I’m not sure I’m quite as confident about the ECF acting as a collective body.

It would seem feasible that UK Chess Academy could step into the breach since they are already associated with UKCC through the Silver Plate competition in which players who just miss out on the Terafinal and Challengers get to play.

It is UK Chess Academy that offers players (who have competed in the UKCC) the opportunity to play in International Tournaments although the ECF don't recognise them as members of the official England team.

[Nick Grey]

Why will it be feasible? The name on the petition was not Mike's.

[Neil Graham]

Run under new management [the UKCC] could be as successful as before but until the ECF (or someone else) steps in to sort out all this rest assured all the wringing of hands or writing of petitions will assuredly come to nothing.

I’m quite sure that somebody could replicate the UKCC - although whether that somebody could be the ECF* is not immediately clear to me.
I’m also quite sure that Basman’s contacts/mailing list/experience would take some time to match if rebuilding from scratch.

I’ve no idea what Bazza intends to do - but I’ve seen nothing that indicates that he wants or intends to hand the UKCC to somebody else.

Anyhoo, what exactly do you have in mind when you talk about the ECF (or someone else) stepping in? To return to my earlier question, If Mr B is not involved what exactly is it that the "new management" are taking over? If he is, what exactly does "step[ing] in to sort out all this" mean?

* I’m quite sure that individual(s) within the ECF could do it if they wished. I’m not sure I’m quite as confident about the ECF acting as a collective body.

At the moment Mr.Basman thinks UKCC can be saved by a petition. He says in his statement We are lobbying MPs (Members of Parliament) to try and get a rule change regarding chess, and will be putting a petition up on the UK Chess Challenge website. If we can get 100,000 signatures, then we can have a debate in Parliament! We hope you will sign in and persuade your friends to do so as well. . At the moment the petition has 250 signatures.

I have no idea what, if anything. he intends to do. I have no idea of the infrastructure of the event. If Mr.Basman is going to carry on let's hear how.

[Mike Truran]

Neil
An outrageous and entirely unfounded allegation. The petition has 325 signatories.

If my maths serves me correctly, so far that's around 0.7% of UKCC participants.

Mike

[John Upham]

Neil
An outrageous and entirely unfounded allegation. The petition has 325 signatories.

If my maths serves me correctly, so far that's around 0.7% of UKCC participants.

Mike

Unfortunately the slavery and forced labour nonsense remains associated with the petition. The number of signatories would have been higher without it. How much higher I could not say. Maybe an order of magnitude? Sadly we will never know. The petition may attain 1,000 signatures in a years time with a bit of luck.

[Mike Truran]

If I were were you I wouldn't underestimate the power of apathy. If I'm honest, most chess parents don't really give a s**t. There's always going to be some gullible organiser in the future willing to provide opportunities for their little darlings and put up with the requisite amount of abuse if things don't go their way.

[Neil Graham]

Neil
An outrageous and entirely unfounded allegation. The petition has 325 signatories.

If my maths serves me correctly, so far that's around 0.7% of UKCC participants.

Mike

Oops- sorry I looked at the [Updates 250 supporters three days ago] box rather than the "Sign this Petition"slide rule thing that even now has risen to 326. At the current rate of increase it will therefore take approximately 11 years to reach the required 100,000 figure - no doubt some mathematician will now point out that's wrong as well. In his "Crisis or Celebration" document Mr.Basman is asking us to "Save the UK Chess Challenge." - I would be pleased if other than signing a petition what he intends to do.

[Mike Truran]

At the current rate of increase it will therefore take approximately 11 years to reach the required 100,000 figure

Forgive me if in the meantime I finish my glass of wine and go to bed.

Forgive me also if I say that the whole thing is complete bo**ocks. Basman decided to ignore the law and do what he decided to do.

End of. Actions have consequences.

[Ian Thompson]

At the current rate of increase it will therefore take approximately 11 years to reach the required 100,000 figure - no doubt some mathematician will now point out that's wrong as well.

There is one rather large flaw in this calculation (aside from the general problems with the petition I pointed out a week ago) - the 100,000 signatures have to be from UK citizens or UK residents (according to the government petitions website). Who knows how many of the 327 current signatures (it's gone up again in the last few minutes) meet this criterion?

[Alan Kennedy]

What does Mr.Basman intend to do? Run under new management it could be as successful as before but until the ECF (or someone else) steps in to sort out all this rest assured all the wringing of hands or writing of petitions will assuredly come to nothing.

As things stand at the moment the database, name, website and fluffy bunnies belong not to Mr Basman but to his trustee in bankruptcy so it is to a certain extent irrelevant what Mr Basman intends to do. there are a number of practicalities that would need to be addressed if a rescue is to be effected:

1 if Mr Basman wants to make an offer to buy the business back (assuming he has the resources) having been made bankrupt Mr Basman would no doubt find it nearly impossible to obtain a credit card machine from the bank so this would hamper payment by credit card by the players (I do not know if the UK chess challenge used to take credit cards ) and

2 if a rescue is to be effected any person taking it over would need to be satisfied it was a going concern - there must be some doubt given that Mike Basman could not afford to pay his VAT

if the current managment are to be involved in the rescue whoever takes it over (including the ECF) would need to be assured of the competence to help run a £150,000 turnover business - from what I have seen thus far (eg the poster on the UKCC site) that must be in doubt.

[Michael Flatt]

If I were were you I wouldn't underestimate the power of apathy. If I'm honest, most chess parents don't really give a s**t. There's always going to be some gullible organiser in the future willing to provide opportunities for their little darlings and put up with the requisite amount of abuse if things don't go their way.

I think that the ECF's Chief Executive and others are rather too dismissive of the UK's premier Junior event which has enjoyed enormous support over the last 20 years from local organisers, parents and, not least, the players themselves. Where else could so many children participate in competitive chess and enjoy the challenge of progressing through each of the rounds to the national final? The structure of the competition is attractive to both children and parents. The trophies, rosettes, book prizes, certificates and fluffy mascots all add to the fun.

Our County Junior Association benefits greatly from the contribution of many parents who involve themselves in managing teams in the EPSCA competitions and running local junior events including the county Megafinals. Many parents do lack knowledge of the game itself which sometimes makes them reluctant to involve themselves in the organisation but with the right encouragement that hurdle is easily overcome.

As one of the 'naive' organisers I have tremendous admiration of Mike Basman's drive and vision in creating such a competition and I have never had any qualms being part of it. Mike's Achilles' Heel has been his cavalier disregard of VAT and the power of HMRC.

Even if entry fees were raised to cover VAT they would still represent extremely good value.

The entry packs for the first round normally go out to schools and junior clubs just before Christmas. So, Mike has two or three months to decide whether to continue and also consider what aspects of its organisation he might need to change.

[Mick Norris]

Even if entry fees were raised to cover VAT they would still represent extremely good value

Exactly - chess is cheap (below elite level) in comparison to other children's activities as I have said on here ad nauseum

Why anyone thinks that tax evasion is ok for chess is beyond me

[Jonathan Bryant]

Actions have consequences.

Which is, ironically, a very valuable lesson that can be learned by playing chess (or not learned, as the case may be).


With regard to Mr B announcing what his intentions might be: He could have done this if he wanted to. He hasn’t. I think it reasonable to conclude, therefore, that he doesn’t want to.

[John Swain]

A poster appeared yesterday depicting Mike Basman dressed as St George ready to take on the Dragon of HMRC:
http://delanceyukschoolschesschallenge. ... Poster.pdf

[Mike Truran]

Michael

You're right! I was overly forceful in my views (but not about the VAT point).