Selection tournaments, Chess a Sport

National developments, strategies and ideas.
Joseph Conlon
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Re: Selection tournaments, Chess a Sport

Post by Joseph Conlon » Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:43 pm

Roger Lancaster wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:09 pm
Wadih Khoury wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:48 am
Pre covid, a junior could reasonably get 10 standard games per month (though not fide rated).
That's probably true of older juniors who compete regularly in 'adult' events but less so of the under-10's and especially under-8's who nevertheless, if they are selected for international events such as the European Schools, still have to face 3-4 hours playing sessions.
I will say here that one of the reasons I run my all-play-all rapid plays as 7 round events is that, particularly in the higher sections, I think it helps in teaching stamina as the next game will start ~ 10 minutes after the last one of the previous round ends and so the density of playing time is quite high
(although admittedly it is a fresh game each time rather a single long effort).

I have heard it said that the large weekend Swisses of the 1970s and 1980s, with 6 rounds starting from Friday night, provided excellent training in stamina and competitive skills.

Wadih Khoury
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Re: Selection tournaments, Chess a Sport

Post by Wadih Khoury » Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:30 pm

Joseph Conlon wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:43 pm

I have heard it said that the large weekend Swisses of the 1970s and 1980s, with 6 rounds starting from Friday night, provided excellent training in stamina and competitive skills.
My 6 rounds 60+30 over 2 days seemed to be quite manageable for the players.
Might be something organisers would want to look into.

On the topic of junior endurance, I think that even strong U8 games often end up on a blunder of sort and rarely go the distance.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: Selection tournaments, Chess a Sport

Post by Roger Lancaster » Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:08 pm

Joseph Conlon wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:43 pm
I have heard it said that the large weekend Swisses of the 1970s and 1980s, with 6 rounds starting from Friday night, provided excellent training in stamina and competitive skills.
It's partly a question of adapting to circumstances. In the 1980s, I was involved with the late Aly Amin in setting up a strong weekend open tournament to which three Soviet players were invited - then women world champion Maia Chiburdanidze and two male GMs, one of whom seemed to double up as Maia's minder. From memory, they all won their Friday evening games but were then astounded to learn that they were expected to play three games next day - "In the Soviet Union, two at most". Much time has elapsed and I can't exactly recall what happened but their play definitely deteriorated for the fourth round on Saturday evening. The same principle applies with juniors - if you're asking them to play significantly longer than they're used to, tiredness will gradually affect their standard of play.

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Alan Ruffle
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Re: Selection tournaments, Chess a Sport

Post by Alan Ruffle » Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:13 am

Dear All
Thank you for your thoughtful and relevant contributions.
My suggestion is simpler and encompasses all that.
This is an annual competition Totally controlled by the tournament organizer. Players only meet within their peer groups. Training not straining.
The more the merrier.
Winner takes all.
This is a sporting approach
Your opinion about chess recognized as a sport is invited.
These are our tomorrow players.
Alan Ruffle

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Alan Ruffle
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Re: Selection tournaments, Chess a Sport

Post by Alan Ruffle » Sun Nov 07, 2021 8:50 am

Since my last post there must be about 1600 viewings.
But not one reply..........
Alan Ruffle

Joseph Conlon
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Re: Selection tournaments, Chess a Sport

Post by Joseph Conlon » Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:42 pm

Dear Alan,

Your suggestion seems extremely similar to the existing British Junior championships, the UK Chess Challenge, or the London Junior Chess Championship. Perhaps a reason no-one has replied is that is unclear what you are actually suggesting and how it would change any of the landscape of junior chess.

best wishes
Joe

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Alan Ruffle
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Re: Selection tournaments, Chess a Sport

Post by Alan Ruffle » Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:07 pm

Dear Joe

The points you make are very valuable and in fact are the same that John Robinson made to me many years ago.
John suggested the better-quality tournaments be allowed to recommend more players to play in the Selection tournament competition.
The games of sport are an early teaching tool in the home and at school. They help children develop personal qualities of Discipline Leadership Teamwork fair play, responsibility, and strategy.
Chess takes a pride in being associated with all these qualities but while we continue to select our junior world championship contenders with the amateurish method that we currently employ. Chess will never be recognized as a sport. And is unlikely to produce a “World Champion”.
I suggest the selection committee are simply asked to consider the results of the selection tournaments bearing in mind that the selection tournament organizer will have the option to ask, “Why not”? if his recommendation fails.
Cheers
Alan Ruffle.

David Sedgwick
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Re: Selection tournaments, Chess a Sport

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat Jan 08, 2022 12:23 pm

Alan Ruffle wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 8:50 am
Since my last post there must be about 1600 viewings.
But not one reply..........
Alan Ruffle
I have a recollection that, many moons ago:

a) You were the BCF/ ECF Junior Director;
b) You submitted similar ideas to the (Management) Board;
c) The Board rejected your proposals;
d) You resigned as a result.

Clearly you have not changed your mind in the interim. It would appear that your critics have not changed theirs either.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Selection tournaments, Chess a Sport

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:35 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 12:23 pm
b) You submitted similar ideas to the (Management) Board;

Comparable selections in international sports would be where there are a limited number of places for an individual disipline. Athletics and swimming spring to mind. In some cases at chess there are unlimited entries allowed, which seems mostly the case in recent times for World and European junior events. But in any case, don't sports use rating and ranking as well as qualification events?
Last edited by Roger de Coverly on Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: Selection tournaments, Chess a Sport

Post by Roger Lancaster » Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:30 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 12:23 pm
Alan Ruffle wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 8:50 am
Since my last post there must be about 1600 viewings.
But not one reply..........
Alan Ruffle
I have a recollection that, many moons ago:
a) You were the BCF/ ECF Junior Director;
b) You submitted similar ideas to the (Management) Board;
c) The Board rejected your proposals;
d) You resigned as a result.
Clearly you have not changed your mind in the interim. It would appear that your critics have not changed theirs either.
I have to say that, when I read Alan's original post, I assumed he was a well-meaning innocent who knew relatively little about junior chess so I'm surprised now to be told that he was a former ECF/BCF junior director. I found that one of the issues with his post, apart from its tendency to ramble, was that it demonstrated at various points a failure to understand the nature of the problem. It's all very well to argue that chess should be regarded as a sport, and many of us would agree, but representations have been unavailingly made to that effect. (It's hard to avoid the feeling that those sports already on the Sport England gravy train don't want more passengers. How would Alan propose to tackle that?). As to chess being 100% skill, anyone who has had the experience of choosing an opening variation which one's opponent happened to be randomly studying the night before - just one example - will know that luck plays a part. Agreed, there's a reasonable expectation that luck will even out over a long series of games but that's true of many sports/games. While I still believe Alan is well-meaning, I'm really not sure that his comments are helpful.

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