Paignton: 2022 - 2023

Details of upcoming UK events, please provide working links if possible.
Jon Underwood
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:28 pm
Location: Devon

Re: Paignton: 2022 - 2023

Post by Jon Underwood » Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:12 am

Independent SAGE is not highly regarded amongst all scientists by any means - more of a political lobby group and that would be a polite and generous way of putting it.

Angus French
Posts: 2149
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 1:37 am
Contact:

Re: Paignton: 2022 - 2023

Post by Angus French » Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:18 am

Jon Underwood wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:12 am
Independent SAGE is not highly regarded amongst all scientists by any means - more of a political lobby group and that would be a polite and generous way of putting it.
Can you evidence that claim?

J T Melsom
Posts: 1294
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: Paignton: 2022 - 2023

Post by J T Melsom » Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:21 am

I may not be using 'weaponisation in its most precise way but the examples of selective use of data to fit very different political agendas have been numerous enough that specific and extensive citation is probably unnecessary at this stage, although others are welcome to do so. In a sense the need by some to set up Independent SAGE illustrates the point, but one might also cite Lockdown skeptics (Toby Young and friends) as an example from another angle and thats before we get to the likes of Dolores Cahill, Mike Yeadon etc. Some of it good and healthy debate, much of it not.

David Sedgwick
Posts: 5249
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:56 pm
Location: Croydon
Contact:

Re: Paignton: 2022 - 2023

Post by David Sedgwick » Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:22 am

Angus French wrote:
Sat Jun 25, 2022 11:22 pm
Yes, very good David. You selectively quoted. You missed off "but that doesn't mean it's over. We need to get cases down even further - if we go into autumn [2021] with 20,000 cases a day I would be very worried." If I recall, case counts by the end of 2021 were approaching 200,000 a day. How many died? How many were debilitated with Long Covid?... Again - third time of asking now: what about the facts quoted in the BMJ article?
Angus, as I said, we can each make our own judgments.

I note that, so far, not a single person has come forward to support you in this thread.

J T Melsom
Posts: 1294
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: Paignton: 2022 - 2023

Post by J T Melsom » Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:37 am

I note that, so far, not a single person has come forward to support you in this thread.

Many have probably decided to opt out of COVID debate by now. Some will have decided it is a waste of time especially when parties to the debate are putting prejudice above scientifically based discourse. Scientists can be wrong, but its not scientific method to selectively use evidence or quote, and dismissing evidence because of the name of the researcher may be a short-cut some chose to take, but is actually some way down the approach that ought to be taken. But I'm one of those who would rather not get dragged into further debate. I do however support Angus in trying to maintain those parts of the narrative which may not be convenient and are not mainstream, but are not beyond the realms of reasonable debate.

User avatar
JustinHorton
Posts: 10364
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Somewhere you're not

Re: Paignton: 2022 - 2023

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:58 am

David Sedgwick wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:22 am
I note that, so far, not a single person has come forward to support you in this thread.
Regardless of the merits or otherwise of anybody's case, this is no sort of an argument for anything.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Mick Norris
Posts: 10310
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester

Re: Paignton: 2022 - 2023

Post by Mick Norris » Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:20 am

David Sedgwick wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:22 am
Angus French wrote:
Sat Jun 25, 2022 11:22 pm
Yes, very good David. You selectively quoted. You missed off "but that doesn't mean it's over. We need to get cases down even further - if we go into autumn [2021] with 20,000 cases a day I would be very worried." If I recall, case counts by the end of 2021 were approaching 200,000 a day. How many died? How many were debilitated with Long Covid?... Again - third time of asking now: what about the facts quoted in the BMJ article?
Angus, as I said, we can each make our own judgments.

I note that, so far, not a single person has come forward to support you in this thread.
Hi David

I assume you understand that some of us don't always have time to come on here and post, and that some of us think engaging with a debate about Covid is spectacularly pointless

My experience of Angus' postings on this topic is that I agree with him, so in future, perhaps you can just take that as read without the need for me to say so please?

So, for anyone interested in knowledge rather than opinion, here's Professor Tim Spector explaining why we're in a new Covid wave during which he says
I was wrong in my previous estimates
, showing how it is possible that life isn't as black and white as many think
Any postings on here represent my personal views

NickFaulks
Posts: 8452
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Paignton: 2022 - 2023

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:56 am

Mick Norris wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:20 am
and that some of us think engaging with a debate about Covid is spectacularly pointless
Amen to that.

Is there not an English Covid Forum somewhere, on which people who are so inclined could post, and which I would never see?
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

Jacques Parry
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:37 pm

Re: Paignton: 2022 - 2023

Post by Jacques Parry » Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:21 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:20 am
My experience of Angus' postings on this topic is that I agree with him, so in future, perhaps you can just take that as read without the need for me to say so please?
Me too, just in case anyone's keeping score

David Sedgwick
Posts: 5249
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:56 pm
Location: Croydon
Contact:

Re: Paignton: 2022 - 2023

Post by David Sedgwick » Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:45 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:20 am
My experience of Angus' postings on this topic is that I agree with him, so in future, perhaps you can just take that as read without the need for me to say so please?
Jacques Parry wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:21 pm
Me too, just in case anyone's keeping score
Fair enough. I make the score four, including JTM and Justin.

[Edit: I apologise for misrepresenting JTM and Justin.]

J T Melsom wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:37 am
Many have probably decided to opt out of COVID debate by now.
I am inclined to join them.
Last edited by David Sedgwick on Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
JustinHorton
Posts: 10364
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Somewhere you're not

Re: Paignton: 2022 - 2023

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:48 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:45 pm

Fair enough. I make the score four, including JTM and Justin.
I don't recall expressing any opinion on the subject at all in this thread.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

J T Melsom
Posts: 1294
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: Paignton: 2022 - 2023

Post by J T Melsom » Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:09 pm

I've also not expressed a view on the substantive points raised by Angus, rather on the general way the debate has been conducted but i have supported his right to post. But none of those supporting Angus accept the idea that this forum debate should be reduced to a simple head count, so miscounting is only relevant if it misrepresents those posters.

Phil Neatherway
Posts: 662
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:10 pm
Location: Abingdon

Re: Paignton: 2022 - 2023

Post by Phil Neatherway » Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:06 am

I agree with Angus as well.

NickFaulks
Posts: 8452
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Paignton: 2022 - 2023

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:31 am

Phil Neatherway wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:06 am
I agree with Angus as well.
And yet you play OTB chess. I am genuinely confused.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

Ken Norman
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:07 pm

Re: Paignton: 2022 - 2023

Post by Ken Norman » Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:54 am

I thought this post was about Paignton.

All the posts about Covid should be in a separate section.

Paignton 2023 have two problems. First they have to find a venue and second they need an organiser.

The Riviera Centre is the obvious venue but perhaps the Devon County Chess Association does not have the money.

As to an organiser Keith Arkell is the obvious person to take over as he now lives in Paignton .

Keith has played at Paignton every year for many years and normally wins first prize. It would be good if he were to show his gratitude to the Devon Chess community by taking up the job of organising Paignton.

Many grandmasters organise chess events for example GM Georg Mohr and GM Adrian Mikalchishin have run many events including the World Seniors Championship at Bled.

Post Reply