British Championship Congress 2022
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Re: British Championship Congress 2022
Only player in the Glorney Cup section with a perfect 6/6 score too a couple of weeks ago. Slightly suspicious now I’d say.
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Re: British Championship Congress 2022
There is live coverage and no delay surprisingly.Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:50 amWadih Khoury wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:31 amI don't think it is unethical to run a quick scan on someone if there is a strong suspicion (like when someone goes to the toilet after every move).
Were the games on live boards? If so, technical difficulties could have been devised to abort the coverage of any particular player.
The position on in game scanning may not be so easy. When FIDE tried it, there were accusations that an arbiter with a feud against a player could use their scanning powers to break the concentration of the player, particularly if they were short of time.
Unlike Olympiads, the refreshment areas at Torquay are not segregated between players and spectators which presents a risk with live coverage.
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Re: British Championship Congress 2022
The scan itself is a matter of seconds. It is the mandatory stand up row with the arbiter which takes the time.Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:50 amThe position on in game scanning may not be so easy. When FIDE tried it, there were accusations that an arbiter with a feud against a player could use their scanning powers to break the concentration of the player, particularly if they were short of time.
It certainly does, even without live coverage. I was always puzzled at 4NCLs when my opponent would head straight out of the room after every move to chat with friends and family, but that has been stopped.Unlike Olympiads, the refreshment areas at Torquay are not segregated between players and spectators which presents a risk with live coverage.
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Re: British Championship Congress 2022
What I will say is that the arbiters were taking the accusations seriously from the point they were raised, but recognised that they'd have to tread carefully and it would be difficult to establish guilt.
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Re: British Championship Congress 2022
Jack, what is or should be the procedure?
I remember in my arbiter training a very big section on anti-cheating, including keeping an eye on people going frequently to the toilet.
I however can't remember what is the procedure if an arbiter has suspicions? Was it a case of informing the chief arbiter?
I remember in my arbiter training a very big section on anti-cheating, including keeping an eye on people going frequently to the toilet.
I however can't remember what is the procedure if an arbiter has suspicions? Was it a case of informing the chief arbiter?
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Re: British Championship Congress 2022
Hi Roger,
Regarding live games, is there not a delay in transmitting the games to avoid 'friendly advice.'
and I'm thinking the feuding Arbiter has every right to scan someone who goes to the toilet during time trouble.
I wonder what pressure a youngster is under to feel the need to cheat, or is it as simple as '...because they can.'
The solution is not to ban a cheat for x numbers of years but to make them arbiters with the ruling they
are not allowed to play in any event till they catch a cheat, 'The 'it takes a thief to to catch thief' theory.
Then that arbiter is released from their duties and can play again, the newly discovered cheat has to take their place.
Regarding live games, is there not a delay in transmitting the games to avoid 'friendly advice.'
and I'm thinking the feuding Arbiter has every right to scan someone who goes to the toilet during time trouble.
I wonder what pressure a youngster is under to feel the need to cheat, or is it as simple as '...because they can.'
The solution is not to ban a cheat for x numbers of years but to make them arbiters with the ruling they
are not allowed to play in any event till they catch a cheat, 'The 'it takes a thief to to catch thief' theory.
Then that arbiter is released from their duties and can play again, the newly discovered cheat has to take their place.
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Re: British Championship Congress 2022
"I remember in my arbiter training a very big section on anti-cheating...
"....I however can't remember what is the procedure if an arbiter has suspicions? "
Just ignore it like they did in the case in question and wait till the heavy jacket in the middle of a heat wave appears.
"....I however can't remember what is the procedure if an arbiter has suspicions? "
Just ignore it like they did in the case in question and wait till the heavy jacket in the middle of a heat wave appears.
Last edited by Geoff Chandler on Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: British Championship Congress 2022
I would say yes.Wadih Khoury wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:31 amJack, what is or should be the procedure?
I remember in my arbiter training a very big section on anti-cheating, including keeping an eye on people going frequently to the toilet.
I however can't remember what is the procedure if an arbiter has suspicions? Was it a case of informing the chief arbiter?
The Chief Arbiter should then institute close monitoring of the player, probably by the arbiter who had raised the matter, but not inform more other members of the control team than necessary.
You might also try to expedite the post game analysis by the Game Screening tool, although that does depend on Ken Regan's availability.
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Re: British Championship Congress 2022
Is it not time that this could be done without Ken's personal attention?David Sedgwick wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:09 amYou might also try to expedite the post game analysis by the Game Screening tool, although that does depend on Ken Regan's availability.
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Re: British Championship Congress 2022
That was a Hybrid event. It would indeed be a matter of concern if a player had succeeded in cheating in such an event.Matt Bridgeman wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:02 amOnly player in the Glorney Cup section with a perfect 6/6 score too a couple of weeks ago. Slightly suspicious now I’d say.
However, the 6/6 result does not seem to me to be implausible. I would be surprised if the player had managed completely to pull the proverbial wool over the eyes of the experienced arbiters at the England venue.
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Re: British Championship Congress 2022
That does happen to some extent and that may have been the case at the Glorney Cup and at the Chessable British Championships.NickFaulks wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:20 amIs it not time that this could be done without Ken's personal attention?
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Re: British Championship Congress 2022
"I would be surprised if the player had managed completely to pull the proverbial wool over the eyes of the experienced arbiters at the England venue."
But you would have thought that after last year in the Glorney Cup when it appears two England players cheated (with no action being taken), that there would be a concerted effort to do better this year. But, I have to ask again, are the accused players "favoured" juniors? It was certainly the case in the past that juniors with influential coaches or troublesome parents got better treatment overall, and better results in 10.2 disputes for example.
Perhaps, England should not participate in the Glorney Cup?
But you would have thought that after last year in the Glorney Cup when it appears two England players cheated (with no action being taken), that there would be a concerted effort to do better this year. But, I have to ask again, are the accused players "favoured" juniors? It was certainly the case in the past that juniors with influential coaches or troublesome parents got better treatment overall, and better results in 10.2 disputes for example.
Perhaps, England should not participate in the Glorney Cup?
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Re: British Championship Congress 2022
I can't see why a hybrid event would necessarily be safer than an OTB one. There's no opponent to raise concerns about multiple absences from the board so it's wholly incumbent upon the arbiters to take the lead and intervene. Also, as the Glorney games in question were of such a high standard, with no mistakes and one blunder (two moves transposed and there would have been no blunders or mistakes) with a centipawn average less than 20, according to lichess, there's surely sufficient grounds for concern. And, no, he wasn't rating favourite in all of these games, which, incidentally, were FIDE-rated.
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Re: British Championship Congress 2022
One player in the 2020 Glorney events, even got zero’d out for cheating, cost their national team the championship and was selected basically a month later for the hybrid European Youth Championships. To my mind this type of undue leniency may have led to this situation where dodgy players think, what the hell, I’ll just cheat in the over the board British too!Kevin Thurlow wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:34 am"I would be surprised if the player had managed completely to pull the proverbial wool over the eyes of the experienced arbiters at the England venue."
But you would have thought that after last year in the Glorney Cup when it appears two England players cheated (with no action being taken), that there would be a concerted effort to do better this year. But, I have to ask again, are the accused players "favoured" juniors? It was certainly the case in the past that juniors with influential coaches or troublesome parents got better treatment overall, and better results in 10.2 disputes for example.
Perhaps, England should not participate in the Glorney Cup?
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Re: British Championship Congress 2022
This (pre game scans) always happens at events eg. the 4NCL and in my mind is clear example of how the whole thing is often for show and not a serious exercise - since, this 'excuse'/justification is always available. There can be no penalty because there is no crime in having a mobile phone on your person prior to the commencement of the round. It's different in FIDE international events where they run checks on everyone before entering the tournament hall and phones are completely forbidden within the venue (which of course isn't really feasible in something like 4NCL without a whole separate secure area for phones etc to be stored).Wadih Khoury wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:31 amHaving talked to some of the juniors involved and various parents, it seems that:
In hindsight, it does appear that arbiters should have taken the player and parent complaints more seriously and much earlier. I don't think it is unethical to run a quick scan on someone if there is a strong suspicion (like when someone goes to the toilet after every move). The issue could have been closed on round 2.
- The suspected player dropped points in the first round in a normal game
- In the second round, when his opponent (2nd seed) went into a rare sideline, he started going to the toilet on nearly every single move. The moves were computer perfect.
- Concerns were raised to the arbiters, but no checks were made
- He allegedly went on on all subsequent rounds to go to the toilet on most moves. Beating along the way seed #1 with perfect accuracy. Players kept raising the issue to arbiters
- Arbiters decided after a certain round to do a scan. However they did it before the start of the game, and found a mobile phone on the player. He claimed that he was about to put it on display at the board. No further action was taken, the game was played normally.
- For the last round, the player allegedly came with a heavy jacket which he put next to him. He then did go to the toilet but took his jacket with him. An arbiter noticed, followed him and we know that he was shortly forfeited the game.