The ACO is back!

Details of upcoming UK events, please provide working links if possible.
NickFaulks
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Re: The ACO is back!

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:55 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:18 pm
Sounds like a threat to me.
I accept that the ACA perceives a threat. On what basis?
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Kevin Thurlow
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Re: The ACO is back!

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:16 pm

"I accept that the ACA perceives a threat. On what basis?"

You would have to ask them. After many years of experience, it seems some representatives of chess organizations either want to threaten others or claim to be threatened by others, or indulge in appalling cronyism, etc. I thought the idea was to organize and play chess.

I assume ACO are not regarded in the same light as Stan Vaughan?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AWo ... Federation

NickFaulks
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Re: The ACO is back!

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:00 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:16 pm
I assume ACO are not regarded in the same light as Stan Vaughan?
They don't seem to have done anything to warrant that.
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Tim Harding
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Re: The ACO is back!

Post by Tim Harding » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:20 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:14 pm
I'm not sure that "parasitical" really makes sense for something like a rating system; you don't in any meaningful sense use up FIDE's resources by using its ratings for your tournament.
Well it is parasitical in the sense that if they didn't piggy-back on FIDE and national ratings they would not be able to structure their congresses the way they do. Setting up their own rating system would of course be expensive for ACO (and not generally acceptable to players) so they are using FIDE resources without making any contribution. By attracting players away from FIDE rated events they do actually, if indirectly, cost FIDE and its federations financially.

And in reply to Chris Rice's post, I don't see anywhere, in the Q&A that he cites, any admission that their events are not rated by FIDE. They mislead players who have not entered their events before. By talking about catering to players under 2400, they are clearly not fully independent of other organisations.

On my website, in my seniors news and calendar, I do list ACO events as this is an information service for players but I always say their so-called championships are unofficial (if I'm in a bad mood I call them fake), put "world championship" in quotes and warn they are essentially holidays.

Of course it would be a good thing if, post-Covid, FIDE could make its World Seniors events more attractive but I guess they have to cater for players from countries where very few people could afford luxury accommodation and facilities.

As for ACO's motivation, I assume it is chiefly profit for the organising company. Why is their any mystery about that?
Tim Harding
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Author of 'Steinitz in London,' British Chess Literature to 1914', 'Joseph Henry Blackburne: A Chess Biography', and 'Eminent Victorian Chess Players'
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NickFaulks
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Re: The ACO is back!

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:23 pm

Tim Harding wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:20 pm
And in reply to Chris Rice's post, I don't see anywhere, in the Q&A that he cites, any admission that their events are not rated by FIDE.
It is a FIDE regulation that all FIDE rated tournaments must state in their regulations that this is the case. If they do not do so, you should draw your own conclusions.

It is hardly an admission, many UK Congresses have considered being FIDE rated, or even tried it, and found that their players prefer not. I think that is a shame, but there you are.
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Nick Grey
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Re: The ACO is back!

Post by Nick Grey » Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:59 pm

so a holiday with unregulated Chess?

NickFaulks
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Re: The ACO is back!

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:26 pm

Nick Grey wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:59 pm
so a holiday with unregulated Chess?
I'm not sure what unregulated means, but not FIDE rated.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

David Gilbert
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Re: The ACO is back!

Post by David Gilbert » Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:13 am

Nick Grey wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:59 pm
so a holiday with unregulated Chess?
First it’s Chess, nine rounds played in seven rating sections from U1200 up in 200 rating bands; second it’s Chess, where else do you get two Grandmasters sitting outside the playing area helping amateurs with their post-game analysis; third it’s Chess, two evening blitz competitions, one open, one team; fourth it’s Chess, with a Grandmaster simul (with up to three GMs depending on demand); fifth it’s Chess, with at least three Grandmaster lectures in English; sixth it’s Chess, with fantastic trophies for the top three in each section, and a good prize fund too (by the way, this it the only Chess competition I know where almost everyone - including partners - turns-up for the presentation); seventh it’s Chess, with drinks and canopies at welcome and goodbye receptions, where you can socialise with players, organisers, arbiters and their partners; eighth there’s more Chess, with sets all over the hotel, games and analysis go on until well into the night.

For the non-chess hours there’s the holiday. And this is the bit non-playing partners like best! Sun, wonderful rooms, great food available all day, ‘free’ drinks including cocktails, a fabulous private beach (and bar) as well as the blue mediterranean, two big pools and a water park, loads of sun loungers, archery, mini golf, a games area, even a small Greek Orthodox Church if that’s your thing. You can also pay for a relaxing massage (I do!). Then there’s the good company! There was a non-chess player who came with his partner for a holiday in 2018, so fascinated was he by the chess games that he was back in 2019 playing (and winning one game) in the U1200 section. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipdJRV3zqjU

Games are not FIDE rated (get over it).

[Advert] It’s the 27th today, so anyone interested in joining us at the Fodele Resort in October has what’s left of today and four more to get their registrations in and claim the full €200 discount. It’s a wonderful life!

Nick Burrows
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Re: The ACO is back!

Post by Nick Burrows » Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:36 am

Is it chess though?

NickFaulks
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Re: The ACO is back!

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:14 am

Nick Burrows wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:36 am
Is it chess though?
I genuinely don't understand. Why might it not be?
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Nick Burrows
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Re: The ACO is back!

Post by Nick Burrows » Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:21 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:14 am
Nick Burrows wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:36 am
Is it chess though?
I genuinely don't understand. Why might it not be?
I couldnt resist after being told Its Chess 10 times

NickFaulks
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Re: The ACO is back!

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:23 am

Nick Burrows wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:21 am
I couldnt resist after being told Its Chess 10 times
I should have realised!
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David Sedgwick
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Re: The ACO is back!

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:17 pm

David Gilbert wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:13 am
First it’s Chess, nine rounds played in seven rating sections from U1200 up in 200 rating bands; second it’s Chess, where else do you get two Grandmasters sitting outside the playing area helping amateurs with their post-game analysis; third it’s Chess, two evening blitz competitions, one open, one team; fourth it’s Chess, with a Grandmaster simul (with up to three GMs depending on demand); fifth it’s Chess, with at least three Grandmaster lectures in English; sixth it’s Chess, with fantastic trophies for the top three in each section, and a good prize fund too (by the way, this it the only Chess competition I know where almost everyone - including partners - turns-up for the presentation); seventh it’s Chess, with drinks and canopies at welcome and goodbye receptions, where you can socialise with players, organisers, arbiters and their partners; eighth there’s more Chess, with sets all over the hotel, games and analysis go on until well into the night.

For the non-chess hours there’s the holiday. And this is the bit non-playing partners like best! Sun, wonderful rooms, great food available all day, ‘free’ drinks including cocktails, a fabulous private beach (and bar) as well as the blue mediterranean, two big pools and a water park, loads of sun loungers, archery, mini golf, a games area, even a small Greek Orthodox Church if that’s your thing. You can also pay for a relaxing massage (I do!). Then there’s the good company! There was a non-chess player who came with his partner for a holiday in 2018, so fascinated was he by the chess games that he was back in 2019 playing (and winning one game) in the U1200 section. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipdJRV3zqjU
And where else can you find tournaments which make false claims about the status of their events? (Yes, I know that there are other examples. I steer clear of those events as well.)
David Gilbert wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:13 am
Games are not FIDE rated (get over it).
I play in plenty of events which are not FIDE rated. That is not the issue.

If everything about the ACO tournaments is as wonderful as you suggest, surely they could drop the fake World Titles and keep everyone happy.

Unless and until they do that, I shall continue to have nothing whatsoever to do with them

Brendan O'Gorman
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Re: The ACO is back!

Post by Brendan O'Gorman » Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:04 pm

World Amateur Championship is an oxymoron whether it's used by FIDE or ACO to mislabel their competitions. Try to look past this silliness and see the ACO events for what they are: excellent chess holiday tournaments. I've been to three previous ones and am looking forward to my fourth on Crete in October. Here are some photos I took in Crete in October 2018: https://brendanogorman.smugmug.com/Chess/Crete

Tim Harding
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Re: The ACO is back!

Post by Tim Harding » Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:09 pm

It's not the ACO fake World Amateur "Championship" I object to - I agree any such designation is somewhat absurd.
It's their claim to run a World Senior Championship.
Tim Harding
Historian and FIDE Arbiter

Author of 'Steinitz in London,' British Chess Literature to 1914', 'Joseph Henry Blackburne: A Chess Biography', and 'Eminent Victorian Chess Players'
http://www.chessmail.com

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