Brian Eley
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Re: Brian Eley
In my conversations with Eley in 1980, which were never less than interesting, it became obvious that he hated Raymond Keene. He also didn't seem to think Keene much of a player.
I ventured to suggest that Keene may have had a greater positional sense. And yes, Eley did accept that Keene's positional sense was better than his!
I ventured to suggest that Keene may have had a greater positional sense. And yes, Eley did accept that Keene's positional sense was better than his!
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Re: Brian Eley
ISTR that Eley was one of the movers behind Yorkshire disaffiliating from the BCF for a while in the late 1980s (?)
Not hard to see how an animosity to Raymondo might be a significant factor there.
Not hard to see how an animosity to Raymondo might be a significant factor there.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)
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Re: Brian Eley
Maybe this would be a place to start. Was David Anderton ever asked to explain what he had been told, and what action if any he had taken in response?James Plaskett wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:32 pmSince 1979 the late David Anderton was well apprised of what the guy was up to.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
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Re: Brian Eley
I'm not sure we can heap all onto DWA. Presumably other key BCF officials from that time would have been appraised of the situation by some of the victims plus others in the know. Some of these are members of this place.JustinHorton wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:50 amMaybe this would be a place to start. Was David Anderton ever asked to explain what he had been told, and what action if any he had taken in response?James Plaskett wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:32 pmSince 1979 the late David Anderton was well apprised of what the guy was up to.
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Re: Brian Eley
Who's trying to? But to start, you have to start somewhere.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
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Re: Brian Eley
I agree but the point I am making is there are BCF persons from that era in this very place who could shed light on these matters. It could be that none of them wish to "get involved" and stir up difficult memories.JustinHorton wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:03 pmWho's trying to? But to start, you have to start somewhere.
Progress is more likely to be made with them rather than someone who is no longer with us.
Anyone with BCF Yearbooks (as I have) from that time will know who they were.
Last edited by John Upham on Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brian Eley
if you have some names to suggest then perhaps you can invite them to comment. Pending that desirable occurrence, let me repeat:
Was David Anderton ever asked to explain what he had been told, and what action if any he had taken in response?
Was David Anderton ever asked to explain what he had been told, and what action if any he had taken in response?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
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Re: Brian Eley
Once again, I don't have special insight into the Eley affair. However, I've come across this type of problem in a different (non-chess) setting and part of the problem is that it's possible to know someone is guilty without having the evidence to produce in a court. In the particular setting I've just alluded to, the complaints related to an employee and any summary dismissal, which is what the offences truly justified, would have been condemned at an employment tribunal. In Eley's case, I've heard mention of numerous affidavits but it's not clear how many mentioned episodes at the upper end of the offence scale as opposed to those which perhaps only merited rebuke and, also, how many of the complainants in the former category were prepared to testify in person if necessary. That's presumably what David Anderton, and perhaps others, would have been expected to weigh up. David, as a solicitor, was probably professionally cautious but it's hard to second-guess him without seeing what he saw.
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Re: Brian Eley
Just to clarify here, your contention is that an employee dismissed after multiple reports of inappropriate behaviour towards children would have gone to a (public) employment tribunal, and would have expected their case to be well-received there?Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:28 pmany summary dismissal, which is what the offences truly justified, would have been condemned at an employment tribunal
Might he also have been expect to "weigh up", for instance, whether to inform the authorities of the reports he'd received, or whether to initiate an internal inquiry, or whether to inform other bodies that the BCF didn't consider Eley a suitable person to be working with juniors?Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:28 pmThat's presumably what David Anderton, and perhaps others, would have been expected to weigh up.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
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Re: Brian Eley
Eley was certainly not a suitable person to be working with juniors, even if a cast-iron legal case could not be raised in 1980.
It was therefore at best inappropriate to have made him Glorney manager in 1980; at worst, downright dangerous.
It was therefore at best inappropriate to have made him Glorney manager in 1980; at worst, downright dangerous.
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Re: Brian Eley
Who would have had the responsibility to make BRE the Glorney Manager in 1980?Nick Ivell wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:55 pmEley was certainly not a suitable person to be working with juniors, even if a cast-iron legal case could not be raised in 1980.
It was therefore at best inappropriate to have made him Glorney manager in 1980; at worst, downright dangerous.
I can say who the Director of Junior Chess was in 1979 and 1980 if that is relevant. But is it?
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Re: Brian Eley
I don't know who made the decision, but whoever made it, it was an irresponsible one.
I doubt that one person made the decision. Would it not have been made by committee?
Or maybe it was just a question of 'Littlewood can't make it, Eley very wants to do it, and we don't want to have that difficult conversation with him'.
I doubt that one person made the decision. Would it not have been made by committee?
Or maybe it was just a question of 'Littlewood can't make it, Eley very wants to do it, and we don't want to have that difficult conversation with him'.
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Re: Brian Eley
I spoke to him when he was running a bookstall at an event and I bought the tournament Bulletin for the British that he won. He signed it for me and I asked why he had more or less stopped playing. He said that he had been put on a low board for an England match shortly after winning the British, and as British Champion, he should be higher. He performed well and grumbled about the board order, so he moved up a few boards for the next match and still did well, then he got dropped altogether. He attributed this to the Oxbridge types running the BCF being biased against him. I pointed out Miles and Short seemed to be accepted, and he said, “Their day will come.”
Shortly after he disappeared, I talked to a senior BCF official and expressed horror at the crimes of which Eley was accused, and got the stunning riposte, “We all knew what was going on.” I asked if they were all at it, and he looked shocked, denied it and subsequently told everyone what a shock it was to them when they found out. The same official was told about a serious problem (of a different nature) some years later, and said in public(!), “We must cover this up.”
James Plaskett wrote a piece in “Chess” complaining that BCF appointed Eley as national coach after a large number of accusations were made against him. DW Anderton wrote a piece published the next month, saying something like, “We sacked him when he did something wrong later”, thereby ignoring the serious point that James made. This seemed a surprising thing for an apparently hotshot lawyer to do, as it gave the impression that he was not disputing that point. I don’t have those issues of “Chess” in front of me, somebody else will have to check if I have remembered correctly.
Shortly after he disappeared, I talked to a senior BCF official and expressed horror at the crimes of which Eley was accused, and got the stunning riposte, “We all knew what was going on.” I asked if they were all at it, and he looked shocked, denied it and subsequently told everyone what a shock it was to them when they found out. The same official was told about a serious problem (of a different nature) some years later, and said in public(!), “We must cover this up.”
James Plaskett wrote a piece in “Chess” complaining that BCF appointed Eley as national coach after a large number of accusations were made against him. DW Anderton wrote a piece published the next month, saying something like, “We sacked him when he did something wrong later”, thereby ignoring the serious point that James made. This seemed a surprising thing for an apparently hotshot lawyer to do, as it gave the impression that he was not disputing that point. I don’t have those issues of “Chess” in front of me, somebody else will have to check if I have remembered correctly.
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Re: Brian Eley
And he was arguably sort of right about one of them.Kevin Thurlow wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:17 pmI pointed out Miles and Short seemed to be accepted, and he said, “Their day will come.”
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)
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Re: Brian Eley
Question number one - It's not a question of being "my contention". The legal department of the local authority in question deemed it an unacceptable risk, the key point being that the victims (in this case, five or six 16- and 17-year-old girls) were either unwilling to testify in Court - or a similar forum such as an employment tribunal - or were regarded as unreliable. I didn't invariably agree with the lawyers but on this occasion I think they were right to be cautious. (But there's more than one way to skin a cat and we managed to find other grounds for dismissing him. We reasoned that he might not be a 'first time offender' and, with a little digging, managed to uncover some highly unsavoury episodes in his past which he had somehow failed to mention when applying for the job).JustinHorton wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:42 pmJust to clarify here, your contention is that an employee dismissed after multiple reports of inappropriate behaviour towards children would have gone to a (public) employment tribunal, and would have expected their case to be well-received there?Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:28 pmany summary dismissal, which is what the offences truly justified, would have been condemned at an employment tribunal
Might he also have been expect to "weigh up", for instance, whether to inform the authorities of the reports he'd received, or whether to initiate an internal inquiry, or whether to inform other bodies that the BCF didn't consider Eley a suitable person to be working with juniors?Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:28 pmThat's presumably what David Anderton, and perhaps others, would have been expected to weigh up.
Question number two: Do you have it on good authority that Anderton did none of those things and, if so, wouId you care to share the source of your knowledge with those of us who are Iess well-informed?