"Resetting" my rapid rating

General discussions about ratings.
jholyhead
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"Resetting" my rapid rating

Post by jholyhead » Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:33 pm

START BORING CONTEXT

I'm in a weird spot whereby my rapidplay rating is trapped 400-500 points below my true level. This happened through a combination of playing in the county team championships a few months after learning the rules back in 2018 (ouch) and the move to the new rating system, which I don't think was capable of factoring in the small number of games played before the migration.

I've tried to play my way out of this mess, but despite scoring 8.5/10 over the last 12 months, I've gained a measly 97 points. At this rate, it's going to be several years before my rapid rating converges to a sensible value. This matters because presently my rating precludes my selection for higher teams in the country league, whilst my true ability means my selection for lower teams (with a rating ceiling significantly lower than my standard play grade) would be unsportsmanlike.

/ END BORING CONTEXT

So my question - if I stop playing Rapidplay entirely, will my rapid rating eventually become inactive (after 12 months? 18? 24?) - and if so, when I restart playing, will my rating be calculated as for new players (provisional, based on my next set of games), or would I just be delaying the slow climb I'm trying to avoid?

Of course the alternative is to start crushing u1400 sections at rapid tournaments up and down the country for the next few years. They could call me the Shropshire Sandbagger.

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: "Resetting" my rapid rating

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Fri Oct 20, 2023 12:21 am

I think the only long term answer is "play more". 97 points is a huge rating gain from 10 games.

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: "Resetting" my rapid rating

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Fri Oct 20, 2023 12:25 am

I've just looked up the answer, by the way; it's 60 months.

jholyhead
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Re: "Resetting" my rapid rating

Post by jholyhead » Fri Oct 20, 2023 12:38 am

IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2023 12:21 am
I think the only long term answer is "play more". 97 points is a huge rating gain from 10 games.
Sure, but my play more options are to sandbag in county Div 2 (with a u1640 ceiling) for the next 4-5 years or travel to rapid tournaments, which isn't how I would choose to spend my chess time/money budget. Or option C - not play for 60 months.

It's just a bit of a ridiculous situation, but I guess no system is perfect.

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Joey Stewart
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Re: "Resetting" my rapid rating

Post by Joey Stewart » Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:07 pm

It's definitely a good example of why clubs should discourage new players from rushing out and getting a rating when they still barely know the game...

One thing you probably could do is re register with the ECF and 'retire' your original name - I've seen that happen a few times in the past, including a time when I was paired against myself in a tournament as the organiser didnt know which of my names to use and so entered both of them!
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

NickFaulks
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Re: "Resetting" my rapid rating

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:22 pm

jholyhead wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:33 pm
This matters because presently my rating precludes my selection for higher teams in the country league.
This is the bit I don't understand. Who says so?
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Mike Gunn
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Re: "Resetting" my rapid rating

Post by Mike Gunn » Sun Nov 19, 2023 11:04 am

Isn't the obvious solution not to play any games for a season ... then your existing rating will be cancelled?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: "Resetting" my rapid rating

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Nov 19, 2023 1:47 pm

Mike Gunn wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 11:04 am
Isn't the obvious solution not to play any games for a season ... then your existing rating will be cancelled?
Another solution not requiring giving up a form of chess would be to lobby for a change of rules or attitude among local league and club organisers so that he can be selected for teams regardless of an historic and low rapidplay rating.

Jack Rudd above says it's five years before a previous rating is totally forgotten. That's a concession of sorts in the ECF's implementation of an Elo method. In the FIDE version it's never unless they have changed the rules in recent years.

DavidWalker
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Re: "Resetting" my rapid rating

Post by DavidWalker » Sun Nov 19, 2023 3:25 pm

FIDE do seem willing to reset a rapid rating in some circumstances. In particular, take a look at Praggnanandhaa's rapid rating. He was rated 1927 in September 2022 and 2587 one month later, despite not appearing to play any rapid games anywhere near that period.

The ECF rating help pages imply that a player gets a "P" rating after 36 months of inactivity. Here is an example of a player from my club who did not play between February 2020 and March 2023 receiving a standardplay "P" rating after their first game back.

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: "Resetting" my rapid rating

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sun Nov 19, 2023 5:04 pm

That was a one-shot resetting for everyone, though: FIDE recognised that rapid and blitz ratings were generally out of kilter and moved them all up until they were no more than 100 points below the player's standardplay rating.

NickFaulks
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Re: "Resetting" my rapid rating

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Nov 19, 2023 11:09 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 1:47 pm
Another solution not requiring giving up a form of chess would be to lobby for a change of rules or attitude among local league and club organisers so that he can be selected for teams regardless of an historic and low rapidplay rating.
I can see nothing in the Shropshire rules about that, so presumably club captains are refusing to accept that anyone with a 1200 rapid rating may actually be far better than that, even though this is demonstrably true.
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jholyhead
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Re: "Resetting" my rapid rating

Post by jholyhead » Tue Nov 21, 2023 5:42 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:22 pm
jholyhead wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:33 pm
This matters because presently my rating precludes my selection for higher teams in the country league.
This is the bit I don't understand. Who says so?
There are two country divisions - Division 1 and Division 2 - Division 2 has a 1640 rating cap.

The Division 1 captains select teams based solely on rating - I would be the 10th reserve or so for our B team based on that system. Maybe I could argue the point and get a few games per season, but probably not. I've considered offering my services to other clubs for the rapidplay league, and may do so in future seasons, but oh the drama it would cause.

Or I could enter Division 2 despite knowing that my playing strength is higher than the intended cap - it's technically allowed by the rules, but it's hardly in the spirit of things, and I'll be playing much weaker players in every round given that on board order, I'd probably be towards the bottom of the team.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: "Resetting" my rapid rating

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Nov 21, 2023 6:09 pm

jholyhead wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2023 5:42 pm

The Division 1 captains select teams based solely on rating - I would be the 10th reserve or so for our B team based on that system.

That's where you need to lobby for a change in attitude. It doesn't have to be any bigger a change than selecting on the higher of standard and rapidplay rating.

NickFaulks
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Re: "Resetting" my rapid rating

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:11 am

jholyhead wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2023 5:42 pm
The Division 1 captains select teams based solely on rating
All of them? You would like to think there would be one club in the county where the captain acts in a rational manner - have you checked?
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jholyhead
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Re: "Resetting" my rapid rating

Post by jholyhead » Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:59 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2023 6:09 pm
jholyhead wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2023 5:42 pm

The Division 1 captains select teams based solely on rating - I would be the 10th reserve or so for our B team based on that system.

That's where you need to lobby for a change in attitude. It doesn't have to be any bigger a change than selecting on the higher of standard and rapidplay rating.
I thought I'd done a good job of lobbying for that change last year, but obviously not, or at least not well enough to earn a place in the teams.

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