Master List

General discussions about grading.
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Paul McKeown
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Master List

Post by Paul McKeown » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:24 am

Hi, with the old system, as a grader, I used to get a link and password to the 6 monthly master list and intermediate updates when they were available.

However, I am not aware (possibly own fault for not paying attention in class) of a similar arrangement for the new ratings.

Is there anyone who can point me in the right direction, please?

Brian Valentine
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Re: Master List

Post by Brian Valentine » Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:37 am

The masterlist in its old form is no longer available. While I don't know exactly what you are using it for, there are a number of ways of extracting data here: https://www.ecfrating.org.uk/v2/help/help_api.php

John Upham
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Re: Master List

Post by John Upham » Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:39 am

Brian Valentine wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:37 am
The masterlist in its old form is no longer available. While I don't know exactly what you are using it for, there are a number of ways of extracting data here: https://www.ecfrating.org.uk/v2/help/help_api.php
Brian,

Assuming the ML is no longer available how does one determine the ECF grading / rating code for players who became "unpublished" but who wish to return to active play?
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Ian Thompson
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Re: Master List

Post by Ian Thompson » Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:50 am

Brian Valentine wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:37 am
The masterlist in its old form is no longer available. While I don't know exactly what you are using it for, there are a number of ways of extracting data here: https://www.ecfrating.org.uk/v2/help/help_api.php
I note that the link says "It also allows the download of complete ratings lists equivalent to those in the previous system." I don't see any way of downloading something equivalent to a master list. There appear to be no API functions that would allow you to get a list of everyone with an ECF grading code.

For my own grading software, it needs a list of all players who are recorded as members of specified clubs, whether graded or not. I don't see any way of extracting this information using APIs either.

If the data could be extracted, how would the ECF suggest converting it from JSON format to CSV format?

Angus French
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Re: Master List

Post by Angus French » Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:53 am

Brian Valentine wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:37 am
The masterlist in its old form is no longer available. While I don't know exactly what you are using it for, there are a number of ways of extracting data here: https://www.ecfrating.org.uk/v2/help/help_api.php
It's required by the Result File Checker program, isn't it? Also the UTU Swiss app uses it.

Brian Valentine
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Re: Master List

Post by Brian Valentine » Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:18 am

If Rating Officers have particular problems, then they can contact me at: manager.rating@englishchess.org.uk.

We are reviewing the data access facilities, but we do need to meet GDPR requirements so things do have to change.

John Upham
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Re: Master List

Post by John Upham » Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:45 am

Brian Valentine wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:18 am
If Rating Officers have particular problems, then they can contact me at: manager.rating@englishchess.org.uk.

We are reviewing the data access facilities, but we do need to meet GDPR requirements so things do have to change.
Brian,

Are you able to reply to my query upthread?

Thanks!
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Mike Gunn
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Re: Master List

Post by Mike Gunn » Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:58 am

The ECF online ratings seem to be produced in a rather ad hoc manner. Players are identified by ECF membership numbers rather than grading codes, but I was advised that submitting results in the old format was acceptable (#pin1=etc) which does entail using the old (#bcfcode) identification.

By the way, this isn't a complaint: when I asked what to do I was given clear advice and the system seems to work!

Mike Gunn
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Re: Master List

Post by Mike Gunn » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:31 am

The masterlist was very useful for checking/ including the ages of juniors when doing a grading submission for a junior tournament run by somebody else. In the absence of new masterlists I haven't been running the checker program when submitting online results and the checker program was very useful for picking up errors in the submission. (On reflection I suppose I could be using one of the historic masterlists I have filed away.)

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Master List

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:55 am

Mike Gunn wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:58 am
The ECF online ratings seem to be produced in a rather ad hoc manner. Players are identified by ECF membership numbers rather than grading codes
That would seem a short sighted piece of design, since it appears to rule out being able to calculate online ratings on an international event, or being able to rate any event where "membership" of some description wasn't a requirement of participation.

Angus French
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Re: Master List

Post by Angus French » Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:29 pm

Brian Valentine wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:18 am
We are reviewing the data access facilities, but we do need to meet GDPR requirements so things do have to change.
So far as GDPR requirements are concerned, I would have thought there was a "legitimate interest" as the data is used to help identify players and avoid duplicate references.

John Upham
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Re: Master List

Post by John Upham » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:17 pm

Angus French wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:29 pm
So far as GDPR requirements are concerned
Presumably the keen Brexiteers will inform us in what respects exiting the European Union has modified GDPR requirements?
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Nick Grey
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Re: Master List

Post by Nick Grey » Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:06 pm

The masterlist was very useful for checking as part of league management systems. hopefully you are prepared for an explosion of otb chess

Paul McKeown
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Re: Master List

Post by Paul McKeown » Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:46 am

Brian Valentine wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:37 am
The masterlist in its old form is no longer available. While I don't know exactly what you are using it for, there are a number of ways of extracting data here: https://www.ecfrating.org.uk/v2/help/help_api.php
Very nice to have an API. And very nice to have some thought given to GDPR - it's of course not only a legal requirement, but it's also a basic courtesy and a human right that personal data remains private from the public gaze.

However, there are valid reasons for a limited number of people, such as those who organise tournaments and provide results to the rating system, to have access to data such as date of birth or geographical data. For instance:
  • as a means of distinguishing between players with the same name
  • as a means to help catch un-merged duplicates
  • as a means to avoid creating unnecessary new records
  • as a means of ensuring that people taking part in an age limited tournament or section are indeed eligible
  • as a means of ensuring that people claiming an age limited prize are indeed eligible
I am sure that others can think of other situations in which organisers and raters have valid reasons to access personal data in the functioning of their role.

If you don't want to provide access to a periodic master list, then a private API, over an encrypted secure channel, with user authentication and authorisation, could be provided instead.

Moreover, the conditions under which access to either a master list or a private API could be spelt out quite explicitly and access removed for breaches. Indeed a signed declaration to adhere to the ECF's data processing rules could be a reasonable requirement for such access. Moreover, in some worst case scenario it could be justifiable for the ECF to pursue an organiser's breach of these rules in the courts or with a report to a data commissioner.

That access was permitted for a limited number of those with a need could also be made clear at the point of an individual signing up for ECF services, and that use of ECF services is contingent on permission being given to allow organisers and others to this personal data limited by the requirement of their roles. A complaints process for abuse could be instituted.

All of this would be entirely appropriate within the regime of GDPR.

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