Re: The new Monthly grades are out
Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:40 pm
My new ECF rating is 1998. My Fide rating is 1813. I suspect a difference of 185 points is high for someone who plays a lot.
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A conversion using +600 would have resulted in 1898, which was around your end of year rating.Tim Spanton wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:40 pmMy new ECF rating is 1998. My Fide rating is 1813. I suspect a difference of 185 points is high for someone who plays a lot.
How dare you!Wadih Khoury wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:56 pmA conversion using +600 would have resulted in 1898, which was around your end of year rating.Tim Spanton wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:40 pmMy new ECF rating is 1998. My Fide rating is 1813. I suspect a difference of 185 points is high for someone who plays a lot.
So seems consistent.
Well this is the problem with using 4 digit ratings. People expect them to give the same outcomes but there is no reason why they should. I have always been somewhat mystified as to the argument that this was a point in their favour.Tim Spanton wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:40 pmMy new ECF rating is 1998. My Fide rating is 1813. I suspect a difference of 185 points is high for someone who plays a lot.
As anyone familiar with US chess can tell you, this confusion will be permanent.Richard Bates wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:33 pmWell this is the problem with using 4 digit ratings. People expect them to give the same outcomes but there is no reason why they should. I have always been somewhat mystified as to the argument that this was a point in their favour.
And as those familiar with Scottish grades will tell you "No it won't." The problem there will be the lack of any relationship at the bottom end between the numbers used in both countries. (To the benefit of Scots playing in England and the detriment of English playing in Scotland.)NickFaulks wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:47 pmAs anyone familiar with US chess can tell you, this confusion will be permanent.
I actually wondered about Scotland when writing my comment. What I know is that the waters are certainly muddied in the States, so we shall see. USCF ratings are systemically higher than FIDE ratings, whereas the new ECF ratings are not supposed to be, but I am not sure whether that will be a help or a hindrance.Alex McFarlane wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:27 pmAnd as those familiar with Scottish grades will tell you "No it won't."
What is expected to happen over time? An Elo based method has scrapped the approach of treating juniors as new players every year. This used to have the effect of removing or reducing the problem of grades too low by dozens of ECF points and presumably helped drive discrepancies between FIDE ratings and ECF grades. I'm aware there were a couple of novelties proposed for the new system, one being to introduce a method which provided a floor for brand new players and the other being to award more points to juniors for winning than were taken away for losing. Did these make the final cut of the methods as implemented?Brian Valentine wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:49 amThere are arguments both ways, but I tend to be on the side of "ECF is not the same as FIDE, get used to the differences"
Lots of information here - https://www.ecfrating.org.uk/v2/help/help_rating.php. They've even published the code, so you could check that as well if you wanted to.Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:07 amI'm aware there were a couple of novelties proposed for the new system, one being to introduce a method which provided a floor for brand new players and the other being to award more points to juniors for winning than were taken away for losing. Did these make the final cut of the methods as implemented?
The Help says the K factor for juniors will be 40 if their rating is going up and 20 if it is going down (presumably from one month to the next, not from one game or event to the next). Adults have a fixed K factor of 20.Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:07 amI'm aware there were a couple of novelties proposed for the new system, one being to introduce a method which provided a floor for brand new players and the other being to award more points to juniors for winning than were taken away for losing.
So a Snakes and Ladders effect. If over a measuring period, the actual score exceeds the expected score by 1, then the rating goes up 40 points. If over the next period it's the other way round, the rating reduces 20 points.Ian Thompson wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:45 amThe Help says the K factor for juniors will be 40 if their rating is going up and 20 if it is going down (presumably from one month to the next, not from one game or event to the next).