It was shocking!

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soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 3148
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

It was shocking!

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:51 am

To my surprise, someone posted that Allah instructs to kill non-Muslims!! So I decided to debunk this myth:
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Myth: Allah instructs to kill non-Muslims.


Reality: Allah doesn't instruct to kill the "non-Muslims". In fact, it is the other way around:
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لَّا يَنْهَاكُمُ اللَّهُ عَنِ الَّذِينَ لَمْ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ وَلَمْ يُخْرِجُوكُم مِّن دِيَارِكُمْ أَن تَبَرُّوهُمْ وَتُقْسِطُوا إِلَيْهِمْ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُقْسِطِينَ [٦٠:٨]


Translation:Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just(60:8).
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This is a clear instruction to treat people justly.

John McKenna

Re: It was shocking!

Post by John McKenna » Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:04 pm

Not quite sure what the above exclamation is meant to convey.

However, to give a somewhat more complete view of what the Qur'an says -
It may be that Allah will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies... [60:7]
That sounds quite encouraging.

(See above for [60:8])

However, care must be taken -
Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong. [60:9]

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 3148
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: It was shocking!

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Sat Nov 28, 2015 8:50 am

I guess the comma before and's signify the isolation of each element and'ed, right?

It will be equal in meaning to

Allah only forbids you, with regard to both those who fight you for (your) Faith from turning to them (for friendship and protection)
and also
those who drive you out of your homes
and also
with regard to those who support (others) in driving you out

Is it what the translation means?

John McKenna

Re: It was shocking!

Post by John McKenna » Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:51 pm

soheil_hooshdaran wrote:I guess the comma before and's signify the isolation of each element and'ed, right?

It will be equal in meaning to

Allah only forbids you, with regard to both those who fight you for (your) Faith from turning to them (for friendship and protection)
and also
those who drive you out of your homes
and also
with regard to those who support (others) in driving you out

Is it what the translation means?
I will try answer your questions, but in my own way - others may have other ways.
I guess the comma before and's signify the isolation of each element and'ed, right?
Your guess is nearly right but instead of 'isolation' I would use 'separation' because if you isolate the elements of a sentence you lose their connection to the whole sentence.
Is it what the translation means?
Again, you are on the right track, but I hope what follows helps to make the meaning of the English translation clearer.

All the commas in the sentence should be there to help clarify the reading and understanding of it. However, as you pointed out, it is often possibe to rewrite a sentence with no (or fewer) commas by using a different word order. Below, I have rewritten the sentence with a different word order to both the original and yours -

Allah only forbids you from turning (for friendship and protection) to those who fight you for (your) Faith and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out.

Of course, the original word order with multiple commas may have been used, by the translator, to keep the same word order as the Koranic text.

Also, interestingly, in your first quotation -
لَّا يَنْهَاكُمُ اللَّهُ عَنِ الَّذِينَ لَمْ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ وَلَمْ يُخْرِجُوكُم مِّن دِيَارِكُمْ أَن تَبَرُّوهُمْ وَتُقْسِطُوا إِلَيْهِمْ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُقْسِطِينَ [٦٠:٨]


Translation:Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just(60:8).
The translator uses "... forbids you not..." when "permits you" would be more natural. Again, it may be because the Koranic text makes use of the Arabic word for forbid rather than the one for permit.

However, as far as I can tell, the translator of verse that you gave [Q.60.8] appears to be the same translator - Abdullah Yusuf Ali - as he who translated the verses [Q.60.7 & 9] I gave. Here is an extract of what he said about his translation -
What I wish to present to you is an English interpretation, side by side with the Arabic text. The English shall be, not a mere substitution of one word for another, but the best expression I can give to the fullest meaning which I can understand from the Arabic text... [From the Preface to the First Ed. 4th April 1934, Lahore]
Situated between Arabia and Pakistan you, Soheil, are better placed than me to judge how successful the translator was in approaching his stated goal.