Ukraine

A section to discuss matters not related to Chess in particular.
Paul McKeown
Posts: 3732
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:01 pm
Location: Hayes (Middx)

Re: Ukraine

Post by Paul McKeown » Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:18 am

Strident English nationalism, a position that one may hear loudly from time to time in the saloon bar, as represented by the Kipperloons, English Democrats, etc., remains a minority view. And, very clearly, if Nick Faulk's desire for the English (he neglects the Welsh and the Northern Irish, but that is no surprise, given his chauvinism) to vote on Scottish independence were to be made real, then his further expressed wish to cast Scotland loose would certainly not happen, as the English would vote massively against the breakup of the United Kingdom. Scots (Welsh, Northern Irish) who live in England hear these poisoned views from time to time, but eventually they fail to provoke, as it becomes clear they aren't representative, the English being, in the round, tolerant and fair.

NickFaulks
Posts: 8452
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Ukraine

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:15 pm

Paul McKeown wrote:then his further expressed wish to cast Scotland loose would certainly not happen
Please read my post again, or perhaps properly for the first time. I expressed no such view. I merely suggested that any decision to split the UK in two should involve both parts, not just one. If you are so confident that your own view would prevail ( and you may well be right, I don't know ), then why does the idea cause you such consternation?

Of course I do not ignore Wales and Nothern Ireland - particularly the latter, which has been treated abominably over the years. However, they both do now enjoy some protection against Westminster which England lacks.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

Paul McKeown
Posts: 3732
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:01 pm
Location: Hayes (Middx)

Re: Ukraine

Post by Paul McKeown » Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:18 pm

Haha, I won't bother, better things to do than argue against the nexus of solipsism, I'm alright Jack and national chauvinism on a Sunday afternoon.

John McKenna

Re: Ukraine

Post by John McKenna » Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:54 pm

I can only urge Paul and Nick to go north (to "Scotland and the referendum on independence" thread) if they, and others, wish to continue that debate.

To get back east, and on topic, I'll take the liberty to quote an American historian -

He [Stalin] knew that sooner or later a non-Communist Poland or Czechoslovakia or Hungary, no matter how carefully their governments stayed and kept within their categorical requirements of a pro-Russian policy, would be gradually growing closer to the West, connected by a thousand small threads... It was safer, and to him better, to impose on these people rulers who were totally subservient to and dependent on Russia - and to close them off... no matter how America and others might protest.
That was how the cold war began... it went on for forty years...
Americans believed, and feared, that having established Communism in Eastern Europe Stalin was ready to promote and, wherever possible, impose it in Western Europe, which was apparently not the case. Stalin - who knew and understood the weak appeal of Communism beyond the Soviet Union, and was anxious about Americas' overwhelming power in and after 1945 - thought the Americans were preparing to challenge and upset his rule over Eastern Europe, which was also not the case. The odd thing is that in Europe the turning point of the cold war came in 1956, at the time of the [failed] Hungarian Revolution, which stunned and shocked the Russian leadership; but it also gave them a recognition of relief - the Americans were not ready or willing to challenge or even attempt to alter the division of Europe.
(John Lukas - The Legacy of the Second World War)

The latest fragile ceasefire is already being broken at Donetsk airport and around the port of Mariupol - both areas the pro-Russian separists are trying to take from the Ukrainian government. Putin's proxies are trying steal another march.

There should really be no surprise that events are following the present path due to the strong Russian objections and impediments to an important part of their historic borderland (one through which their Orthodox religion, Cyrillic alphabet and other cultural values were transmitted from Byzantium) going west.

[In the 11th century, Kyivan Rus' was, geographically, the largest state in Europe, becoming known in the rest of Europe as Ruthenia (the Latin name for Rus'), especially for western principalities of Rus' after the Mongol invasion. The name "Ukraine", meaning "in-land" or "native-land",[18] usually interpreted as "border-land", first appears in historical documents of 12th century[19] and then on history maps of the 16th century period.[20] (Wikipedia)]
Last edited by John McKenna on Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Matt Mackenzie
Posts: 5191
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:51 pm
Location: Millom, Cumbria

Re: Ukraine

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:32 pm

For heavens sake, aren't people like NF aware of how overwhelmingly England dominates the UK (not least in Westminster MP terms?)

De facto, the HoC *is* the "English Parliament". Indeed, that is one of the reasons some Scots want independence :)
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

NickFaulks
Posts: 8452
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Ukraine

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:53 pm

I shall reply in the Scottish thread, where I have already tried to move this once.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

Alistair Campbell
Posts: 379
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:53 pm

Re: Ukraine

Post by Alistair Campbell » Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:34 pm

Paul McKeown wrote: I'm originally from Northern Ireland, but I wrote of English attitudes I hear here from English mouths, in response to Arshad A.'s musings concerning "colonial" attitudes.

My personal view is that Scotland will be fine either way, but that Scotland has a lot to offer within the United Kingdom that the rest of us should be grateful for. Loss of Scotland from the UK, would, of course, lead to a crisis of confidence in Ulster's Unionist community, and that is something I do rather fear, the peace is embedded, but deeply enough to survive such a shock? No one can know for certin.
Hi Paul - I was aware that you were (and presumably still are...) Northern Irish. Interesting comment on the (Ulster) Unionist situation - which I hadn't considered. I 'll back out of this discussion and head over to the other thread, where I may feel on safer ground...

User avatar
Christopher Kreuzer
Posts: 8781
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:34 am
Location: London

Re: Ukraine

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:32 pm

John McKenna wrote:

To get back east, and on topic [...]

There should really be no surprise that events are following the present path due to the strong Russian objections and impediments to an important part of their historic borderland (one through which their Orthodox religion, Cyrillic alphabet and other cultural values were transmitted from Byzantium) going west.
Coming back to this, an interesting article here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30093587

'East-West conflict set to run and run' (Mark Mardell)

User avatar
Peter D Williams
Posts: 839
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:15 pm
Location: Hampshire

Re: Ukraine

Post by Peter D Williams » Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:26 pm

The Ukrainian government was accused by Human Rights Watch last month of using cluster bombs in residential area.The UN is calling for an investigation into the use of cluster bombs.
when you are successful many losers bark at you.

Simon Rogers
Posts: 2337
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:30 pm

Re: Ukraine

Post by Simon Rogers » Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:49 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:49 pm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29026623

"Russia 'to alter military strategy towards Nato' "
Apologies for rejuvenating this topic.
But what is happening now in the Donbas region is following on from the invasion of Crimea.
Looks like the Russian troops are moving into Ukraine again.
What next?

User avatar
Chris Goodall
Posts: 1057
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:40 pm
Contact:

Re: Ukraine

Post by Chris Goodall » Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:40 am

Simon Rogers wrote:
Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:49 pm
Apologies for rejuvenating this topic.
But what is happening now in the Donbas region is following on from the invasion of Crimea.
Looks like the Russian troops are moving into Ukraine again.
What next?
There must be some mistake, because Russia had "absolutely no intention of pulling Donbass into Russia or creating an independent [state]". At least according to the Russia expert at 10:02 on this RT.com video, which may be of additional interest to chess players in that the sanest person in the room by a long chalk is Tim Wall.
Donate to Sabrina's fundraiser at https://gofund.me/aeae42c7 to support victims of sexual abuse in the chess world.

Northumberland webmaster, Jesmond CC something-or-other. Views mine. Definitely below the Goodall Line.

David Sedgwick
Posts: 5249
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:56 pm
Location: Croydon
Contact:

Re: Ukraine

Post by David Sedgwick » Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:29 pm

Chris Goodall wrote:
Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:40 am
There must be some mistake, because Russia had "absolutely no intention of pulling Donbass into Russia or creating an independent [state]". At least according to the Russia expert at 10:02 on this RT.com video, which may be of additional interest to chess players in that the sanest person in the room by a long chalk is Tim Wall.
Whatever you think of the views expressed, they were expressed seven years ago.

User avatar
Christopher Kreuzer
Posts: 8781
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:34 am
Location: London

Re: Ukraine

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Fri Feb 25, 2022 8:50 pm

Statement by Russian tennis player Andrei Rublev:

https://twitter.com/TSN_Sports/status/1 ... 6905842688

"Russian tennis player Andrey Rublev writes "No war please" on the camera following his advancement to the final in Dubai."

User avatar
Christopher Kreuzer
Posts: 8781
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:34 am
Location: London

Re: Ukraine

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sat Feb 26, 2022 12:32 pm

Some of the early posts in this thread, back in 2014, seem remarkably prescient now.
John McKenna wrote:
Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:03 pm
We will soon forget the World Cup unless we first have a World War instead.
The BBC's John Simpson recently speculated about the chances of 3rd. But what does he know.
These days every media pundit is also an expert, of course.
Chris Rice wrote:
Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:26 am
From the Susan Polgar site today is a further article where Kasparov is raging against Putin likening him to Hitler. I've got some sympathy for this as there are definitely similarities between Putin's flimsy pretext of invading the Crimea and Hitler's invasion of the Sudetenland...

Mick Norris
Posts: 10310
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester

Re: Ukraine

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Feb 26, 2022 12:53 pm

Pete Doggers
Karpov was one of the 351 members of the State Duma voting in favor of the recognition of the Donetsk People's Republic (DNR) and the Luhansk People's Republic (LNR). Karpov yesterday emerged on the European Union's list of individuals and legal entities that sanctions were imposed on. The EU sanctions include a freeze of assets of these persons on the territory of the EU as well as blocking them from traveling into the EU.
Any postings on here represent my personal views

Post Reply