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Electoral reform for the UK?

Posted: Sat May 09, 2026 4:26 pm
by John Upham
One of the few things the UK has in common with Belarus is being one of the last two European countries to cling on to the out-dated First Past the Post (FPTP) electoral system.

Assuming common sense prevails and we upgrade to something sensible what system would you like to migrate to?

One thing that annoys me intensely is so-called tactical voting. I want to vote for something that I want rather than voting for something to avoid something else. FPTP seems to facilitate tactical voting which I'd like to see the back of.

Your thoughts?

Re: Electoral reform for the UK?

Posted: Sat May 09, 2026 7:31 pm
by Matt Mackenzie
Electoral reform is long overdue, and the case is even stronger for it in local elections (in England/Wales, Scotland has already switched)

Re: Electoral reform for the UK?

Posted: Sat May 09, 2026 7:38 pm
by Alan Walton
The counter agrument is that other methods generally result in minority governments or coalitions; and at present in the UK setup I cannot see that happening; if it was England only then yes possilby; I suspect the people who want it don't get the result they want (i.e. Lib Dems), but last time they were in a coalition that didn't go too well for them

Re: Electoral reform for the UK?

Posted: Sat May 09, 2026 8:09 pm
by Matt Mackenzie
We've had minority governments and coalitions (you allude to the latter yourself) under FPTP.

Re: Electoral reform for the UK?

Posted: Mon May 11, 2026 10:51 am
by MSoszynski
Let me put the case for first-past-the-post (FPTP).

Proportional Representation (PR) is not one system but many, each with its own characteristics. A blanket approval of any-old PR is, what shall I say?, unconsideredly hasty.

PR can work against local independent candidates, and against parties with localised support. In other words, it can favour larger parties.

Parties can ensure the election of their own unpopular candidates through a list system. Thus it also makes it harder to remove unpopular politicians.

Multi-member constituencies can become so large that constituents become even more distanced from their representatives.

The voting system becomes a "black box" working through a particular PR algorithm (of which there are many) before delivering some arithmetic verdict. As if manipulating votes in some special way solves politics.

It becomes possible for majority FPTP votes to be overturned such that the minority is victorious. In fact, that is the point of PR, really, that the outcome of an election is different. The familar and clear-to-all "show of hands" is now manipulated by some algorithm into who knows what result. And it is not the case that any or every PR re-interpretation of the popular vote would lead to the same result.

The next time you lose a vote at your chess club's or association's AGM, try to point out that actually you should win because of... I don't know. Try using a pie chart and some ingenuity.

Re: Electoral reform for the UK?

Posted: Mon May 11, 2026 11:35 am
by Matt Mackenzie
But most of that can all be seen as an argument that the best electoral system is a hybrid, rather than pure FPTP.

Re: Electoral reform for the UK?

Posted: Mon May 11, 2026 12:34 pm
by Ian Thompson
MSoszynski wrote:
Mon May 11, 2026 10:51 am
Let me put the case for first-past-the-post (FPTP).

Proportional Representation (PR) is not one system but many, each with its own characteristics. A blanket approval of any-old PR is, what shall I say?, unconsideredly hasty.
What are your views on transferable vote systems? You can keep the existing constituencies and having someone elected who specifically represents that area. The difference compared to FPTP is that, if a voter's first choice candidate doesn't win, the voter can increase the chances of their second choice candidate winning, and so on for the remaining candidates, minimising the chances of their last choice candidate winning.

Re: Electoral reform for the UK?

Posted: Mon May 11, 2026 2:24 pm
by NickFaulks
Changing voting systems is a matter of huge significance, but the question which dominates the minds of MPs who decide the issue will never be "what is best for the country over the next century?", but rather "which system makes it most likely that I will keep my seat at the next election?".

In general that would be the status quo, because that's how they got there.

What would make a vote in this Parliament ( which I don't expect ) interesting is that most sitting members have had their cards marked that they are now on track to lose their jobs.

Re: Electoral reform for the UK?

Posted: Mon May 11, 2026 5:09 pm
by John Upham
NickFaulks wrote:
Mon May 11, 2026 2:24 pm
What would make a vote in this Parliament ( which I don't expect ) interesting is that most sitting members have had their cards marked that they are now on track to lose their jobs.
Fingers and toes crossed your prediction includes the "members" for

Clacton-on-Sea
Ashfield
and
Boston and Skegness

Re: Electoral reform for the UK?

Posted: Mon May 11, 2026 8:39 pm
by NickFaulks
John Upham wrote:
Mon May 11, 2026 5:09 pm
Fingers and toes crossed your prediction includes the "members" for

Clacton-on-Sea
Ashfield
and
Boston and Skegness
Your political preferences are noted, but any objective analysis of Thursday's results would conclude that these are three of the safest seats, behind only Great Yarmouth. As always, I am available to take bets.

Re: Electoral reform for the UK?

Posted: Mon May 11, 2026 11:42 pm
by John Clarke
As one who’s witnessed a change from FPTP to PR in his own country, I feel more or less obliged to comment on this.

Here in NZ we're just coming up to 30 years of PR, after a couple of referenda in 1992-3 gave a decisive mandate for the change from FPTP. On the whole it’s been a distinct improvement on the “elected dictatorships” that tended to prevail under the old system. For one thing, we no longer see anomalies like winning the popular vote, but still not getting enough seats to govern, something which happened in both 1978 and 1981.

In the form of PR adopted here, though, there’s still plenty of room for political shenanigans. It's very similar to the one used in Germany: we call it Mixed Member Proportional (MMP). The details of how it operates are too complicated to go into on this forum; those interested can look it up on Wikipedia or elsewhere – this site explains it quite well and succinctly.

However, I don’t know to what extent the NZ experience is relevant to the UK. For one thing, we have no second chamber in our parliament. For another, there are seven Maori-only seats in the House, plus a sizeable (though currently unstable) Maori political party which is only partially comparable with the various nationalist parties in the UK.

Under MMP, many minor parties have appeared and disappeared in the last three decades, usually founded by disaffected sitting members of the two major parties (centre-right National and centre-left Labour). Some never had a hope; some flourished briefly before being consumed by in-fighting or scandal; others again were effectively one-man-bands which did well for a time, sometimes even making it into government, but which vanished soon after their founder/leaders died or retired. Only three have had real staying power – the Greens, the hard-right ACT, and New Zealand First, the most successful of the one-man-bands, which still might just manage the transition to a regular centre-ish party once its now 80-year old founder/leader exits the scene.

The most tiresome feature of this (or I suppose any PR) system is that one of the lesser parties can become “king-maker” in deciding which of the two big parties it’ll go into coalition with, and thus achieve a disproportionate degree of influence on policy. Right now that role is filled by NZ First. Whatever policies this outfit espoused when first set up, it seems now to have no bedrock principle at all beyond getting itself into office. It’s twice been booted out of the House altogether after contentious spells in coalition, only to reinvent itself and somehow squeeze back in again. It’s currently riding a populist wave to achieve its highest ever standing in the polls at around 15%. Given its indifferent track record the phenomenon is hard to explain.

Tactical voting most certainly operates too. The ACT party only survived at all for many years because National effectively gave them a free seat in the House. ACT’s leader stood for an electorate seat, and National repeatedly kneecapped its own candidates there by encouraging their members to vote for the ACT man instead - their reasons for doing this are too involved to go into here. (They did the same in one of the Wellington seats as well in the first MMP election in 1996. A documentary about the campaign in that electorate showed the defeated National candidate calling his leader a "f***ing prick" on camera.)

The Electoral Commission, which oversees the system, has more than once recommended some significant changes to it, which make a lot of sense to most, but which the government of the day has almost invariably ignored, because they happened to benefit from the arrangements as they were.

Quite a lot of folk here are distinctly cheesed off with all the PR political ballet, and still seem to hanker for the good old days of two parties taking turns to govern with a clear majority of seats. At the 2017 election, there was near-outrage in some quarters when the biggest party – National – was excluded from office after NZ First opted to go with Labour. To them it was almost unnatural that the party having the most seats didn’t get to rule. Still too early to say whether that old-fashioned mindset will gradually disappear.

Re: Electoral reform for the UK?

Posted: Tue May 12, 2026 12:13 am
by Matt Mackenzie
John Clarke wrote:
Mon May 11, 2026 11:42 pm
At the 2017 election, there was near-outrage in some quarters when the biggest party – National – was excluded from office after NZ First opted to go with Labour. To them it was almost unnatural that the party having the most seats didn’t get to rule. Still too early to say whether that old-fashioned mindset will gradually disappear.
Though given the result in the subsequent election, it is surely fair to say that "near-outrage" was far from universal.

Re: Electoral reform for the UK?

Posted: Tue May 12, 2026 10:25 am
by John Upham
NickFaulks wrote:
Mon May 11, 2026 8:39 pm

Your political preferences are noted,
I've not indicated who I might vote for but merely the party I would least likely vote for (assuming National Front or British National Party or English Defence League are not on the ballot paper!). Hence my earlier point about my dislike of so-called tactical voting.

However I would rather someone did vote for Deform UK Ltd. rather than not vote at all.

Many people lost their lives so that we gain the right to vote and maintain democracy. That must never be forgotten.

Re: Electoral reform for the UK?

Posted: Tue May 12, 2026 1:28 pm
by NickFaulks
John Upham wrote:
Tue May 12, 2026 10:25 am
I've not indicated who I might vote for but merely the party I would least likely vote for
Same thing in practice. My current prediction for the makeup of the UK government after the next election is that we shall see a broad Left coalition including Greens, Gazans, Lib Dems, what's left of Labour and much of what's left of the Conservatives.

It won't really matter which component you have voted for, except that tactical voting - which, like you, I abhor - will be of paramount significance.

Re: Electoral reform for the UK?

Posted: Tue May 12, 2026 2:06 pm
by John Upham
NickFaulks wrote:
Tue May 12, 2026 1:28 pm
John Upham wrote:
Tue May 12, 2026 10:25 am
I've not indicated who I might vote for but merely the party I would least likely vote for
Same thing in practice. My current prediction for the makeup of the UK government after the next election is that we shall see a broad Left coalition including Greens, Gazans, Lib Dems, what's left of Labour and much of what's left of the Conservatives.

It won't really matter which component you have voted for, except that tactical voting - which, like you, I abhor - will be of paramount significance.
You've forgotten to mention the Judean People's Front and the People's Front of Judea plus the Silly Party and The Very Silly Party, Don't recall a Gaza Party in Rushmoor or Hart but I will check the ballot paper.