Boris Johnson

A section to discuss matters not related to Chess in particular.
Alex McFarlane
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Re: Boris Johnson

Post by Alex McFarlane » Sun Jul 10, 2022 9:39 pm

Hi Nick,

A great pity you do not intend to continue with this topic as I would be delighted to hear exactly what you mean by saying that he has got Brexit done.

The population of Northern Ireland doesn't seem to agree with your opinion.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Boris Johnson

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Sun Jul 10, 2022 10:01 pm

Nick Ivell wrote:
Sun Jul 10, 2022 7:15 pm
I simply felt, for the sake of balance, that the 'case for Johnson' should be put. So I did.

In general, I despise the politics of this forum (with occasional exceptions, such as David). For this reason, I will not be commenting further.

Let the Corbynite echo chamber resume...
As I just pointed out, this is an at least questionable description.

But you don't seem very interested in substantiating your claims, so meh.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

NickFaulks
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Re: Boris Johnson

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Jul 10, 2022 10:23 pm

Alex McFarlane wrote:
Sun Jul 10, 2022 9:39 pm
Hi Nick,

A great pity you do not intend to continue with this topic as I would be delighted to hear exactly what you mean by saying that he has got Brexit done.

The population of Northern Ireland doesn't seem to agree with your opinion.
Wrong Nick, but I am willing to give Boris a fairly good mark for getting Brexit done. Certainly more than any of the others would have done.

As to Northern Ireland, he could have fixed that so easily but was frightened that Liz Truss would have claimed much of the credit.* That is no way to run a government.

*She would have, too!
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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Boris Johnson

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Mon Jul 11, 2022 12:59 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Sun Jul 10, 2022 10:23 pm
Alex McFarlane wrote:
Sun Jul 10, 2022 9:39 pm
Hi Nick,

A great pity you do not intend to continue with this topic as I would be delighted to hear exactly what you mean by saying that he has got Brexit done.

The population of Northern Ireland doesn't seem to agree with your opinion.
Wrong Nick, but I am willing to give Boris a fairly good mark for getting Brexit done. Certainly more than any of the others would have done.

As to Northern Ireland, he could have fixed that so easily but was frightened that Liz Truss would have claimed much of the credit.* That is no way to run a government.

*She would have, too!
I've not been paying attention. What was this 'easy' solution that Liz Truss would have claimed credit for?

[I do think the damage done to the Northern Ireland peace process is one of the major (negative) consequences of Brexit. I do also remember thinking at the time I saw the name 'Brexit' rise to prominence, what a soundbite it was, little realising that it would actually happen! I did go on some of the marches, but other issues are, and arguably always were, more important: the history that led to war in Ukraine; the Covid pandemic; and, last but most certainly not least, climate change. When the history books are written, will Brexit be seen as as big an issue as those three? Probably not.]

NickFaulks
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Re: Boris Johnson

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Jul 11, 2022 1:27 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Mon Jul 11, 2022 12:59 am
I do also remember thinking at the time I saw the name 'Brexit' rise to prominence, what a soundbite it was, little realising that it would actually happen!
I voted to leave the Common Market in 1975, because I could already see where their neo-fascist empire was headed, and have been agitating against them ever since. I am amused to hear that we escaped while you weren't looking.

By the way, Jeremy Corbyn shared my opinions on Europe in those days and I can't help feeling that he still does.
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Mick Norris
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Re: Boris Johnson

Post by Mick Norris » Mon Jul 11, 2022 8:03 am

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Sun Jul 10, 2022 7:09 pm
Would be genuinely interested about who on here you regard as "Corbynite".

I think that Messrs Killoran and Horton would admit as much, but apart from that I'm struggling a bit.

Speaking personally, I have always been a man of the left but did not vote for him in either Labour leadership election.
Me neither, but I didn't vote for Starmer either
Any postings on here represent my personal views

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: Boris Johnson

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Mon Jul 11, 2022 2:11 pm

Politically my views are very similar to Jeremy Corbyn (and I don't think Starmer's are that madly different - if he would have the courage of his convictions). However I believe that Corbyn did not have the skills necessary to lead a political party, let alone a government - it's all very well being hopeful and optimistic but you also have to bang heads together where necessary. Brexit is a case in point - while it would be very unfair to blame him for the whole as the other wing of the Labour Party were equally tone deaf - Corbyn provided no leadership or vision.

And while again it would be unfair to pin all the blame on Corbyn personally, as a Labour party member, I hold him complicit in the disgusting antisemitic racism that still infects the movement. More to the point I believed at one time that he was not antisemitic himself but his behaviour since relinquishing the leadership makes me increasingly unsure.
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David Sedgwick
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Re: Boris Johnson

Post by David Sedgwick » Mon Jul 11, 2022 7:43 pm

I hadn't intended to comment further at this time.

However, I thought that Forum readers might be interested in Ray Keene's views on the matter, which he has just posted on Twitter:

"To be clear: my 1st preference would be for Tory Party to reinstate Boris Johnson; next, for Boris to at least be on the leadership ballot. Finally, for Jacob Rees-Mogg to win, then appoint Boris to be Deputy PM. Failing that, Boris should call a General Election while he still can."

Re-posting does not imply endorsement.

Reg Clucas
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Re: Boris Johnson

Post by Reg Clucas » Mon Jul 11, 2022 9:05 pm

I believe there is currently a job vacancy in Sri Lanka which might interest him. :)

Nick Grey
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Re: Boris Johnson

Post by Nick Grey » Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:07 pm

I voted to leave the Common Market in 1975. I was at school too young to vote as was BJ.

Angus French
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Re: Boris Johnson

Post by Angus French » Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:38 pm

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Mon Jul 11, 2022 2:11 pm
Politically my views are very similar to Jeremy Corbyn (and I don't think Starmer's are that madly different - if he would have the courage of his convictions). However I believe that Corbyn did not have the skills necessary to lead a political party, let alone a government - it's all very well being hopeful and optimistic but you also have to bang heads together where necessary. Brexit is a case in point - while it would be very unfair to blame him for the whole as the other wing of the Labour Party were equally tone deaf - Corbyn provided no leadership or vision.

And while again it would be unfair to pin all the blame on Corbyn personally, as a Labour party member, I hold him complicit in the disgusting antisemitic racism that still infects the movement. More to the point I believed at one time that he was not antisemitic himself but his behaviour since relinquishing the leadership makes me increasingly unsure.
On Corbyn's alleged antisemitism and antisemitism in the Labour Party, I'd recommend watching this. And you can find much else besides if you look for it.

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Boris Johnson

Post by MartinCarpenter » Tue Jul 12, 2022 10:10 am

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Mon Jul 11, 2022 2:11 pm
Politically my views are very similar to Jeremy Corbyn (and I don't think Starmer's are that madly different - if he would have the courage of his convictions). However I believe that Corbyn did not have the skills necessary to lead a political party, let alone a government - it's all very well being hopeful and optimistic but you also have to bang heads together where necessary. Brexit is a case in point - while it would be very unfair to blame him for the whole as the other wing of the Labour Party were equally tone deaf - Corbyn provided no leadership or vision.

And while again it would be unfair to pin all the blame on Corbyn personally, as a Labour party member, I hold him complicit in the disgusting antisemitic racism that still infects the movement. More to the point I believed at one time that he was not antisemitic himself but his behaviour since relinquishing the leadership makes me increasingly unsure.
I guess you have to remember that he spent nearly all his political life campaigning for a variety of mostly worthy, often unpopular, often basically hopeless causes. That must require/develop an incredibly stubborn make up, and being very slow indeed to admitting being wrong.

Put that mindset in charge of a political party? A broadly terrible idea and we saw the results - esp so after he quit I think. I'd be quite hesitant to judge him beyond that.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Boris Johnson

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:06 pm

With the benefit of hindsight, its clear Corbyn should have stood aside some time after Labour's much better than expected result in 2017.
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Andrew Zigmond
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Re: Boris Johnson

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Wed Jul 13, 2022 12:12 am

The sad reality under Corbyn was that Jewish members were often told to their face at meetings "we don't want Jewish people in the party". A specific case of this happened in the CLP (constituency Labour party) of the young Nottingham MP Nadia Whittome who was at that time seen as being on the Corbynite wing. To her credit she stepped in and supported the member, leaving plenty of members to accuse her of being a traitor to the cause.

Elsewhere Jewish members who had been committed activists for years were suddenly being challenged by new members demanding to know what their view was on the Israel/ Palestine conflict. Young Jewish members (including teenagers) who believed as passionately in social justice as the other youngsters who Corbyn inspired were treated to intense verbal abuse online.

The overriding message from Corbynite members was "antisemitism is wrong BUT IF YOU DARE RAISE IT YOU'RE LYING IN ORDER TO UNDERMINE CORBYN/ DIVERT ATTENTION AWAY FROM ISRAEL ... OR BOTH".

In any case Corbyn is yesterday's man. His echo chamber of sycophants grows less and less with every month that passes and there is a strong possibility that if he runs as an independent in Islington North he will not win.
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Joey Stewart
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Re: Boris Johnson

Post by Joey Stewart » Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:13 pm

But back on topic of Boris.... Who do we think might come out on top of the replacement elections? If I was a conservative MP I'd be worried that Boris mode of operating runs deep in the cabinet and anyone who worked too close to him is likely to be seen as tainted by the same brush.
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.