English Chess Forum

GROUP F:

Final fixtures: France (4) v Portugal (3), Germany (3) v Hungary (1)

FRANCE WIN, GERMANY WIN OR DRAW: France winners, Germany runners-up, Portugal 3rd with 3.

FRANCE WIN, GERMANY LOSE: France winners, Hungary runners-up, Germany 3rd with 3.

FRANCE DRAW, GERMANY WIN: Germany winners, France runners-up, Portugal 3rd with 4.

FRANCE DRAW, GERMANY DRAW: France winners, Germany runners-up, Portugal 3rd with 4.

FRANCE DRAW, GERMANY LOSE: France winners, Portugal runners-up, Hungary 3rd with 4.

FRANCE LOSE, GERMANY WIN: Germany winners, Portugal runners-up, France 3rd with 4.

FRANCE LOSE, GERMANY DRAW: Portugal winners, France runners-up, Germany 3rd with 4.

FRANCE LOSE, GERMANY LOSE: Portugal winners. If the combined victory margins total 5 or more, Hungary runners-up and France 3rd. If they total 3 or less, France runners-up and Hungary 3rd.
If they total exactly 4 and Hungary do not outscore France, France runners-up and Hungary 3rd. If Hungary outscore France by 2 or more, Hungary runners-up and France 3rd. If Hungary outscore France by exactly 1, it comes down to disciplinary points.
In all cases in this scenario, 3rd place scores 4.

MJMcCready wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:37 am

England were poor against Scotland.

Yeah I agree Mark. Although the Scottish contingent on the forum will be happy.
Good performance by Germany. You can never write off the Germans.

Simon Rogers wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:10 pm

Although the Scottish contingent on the forum will be happy.

I'm not sure they should. Not a bad result, but they needed to win and might have won.

Within certain definitions of "needed to win"

In case it should prove helpful in discussions of what teams are likely to need to qualify for the knockout stage, let me post (from Wikipedia) the table of the third-placed teams from the 2016 tournament



as well as those from two World Cups with the same format (six groups of four, three points for a win, sixteen teams to qualify) these being the tournaments of 1990



and 1994.

JustinHorton wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:58 pm

Within certain definitions of "needed to win"

My definition would be that, in terms of likelihood of qualification, the difference between a win and a draw was greater than the difference between a draw and a loss. In chess terms, Scotland are not a highly rated team, so any opportunity to take advantage of opponents who were below par was worth taking risks for.

Simon Rogers wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:10 pm

MJMcCready wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:37 am

England were poor against Scotland.

Yeah I agree Mark. Although the Scottish contingent on the forum will be happy.
Good performance by Germany. You can never write off the Germans.

No, definitely not after today's performance.

I think England thought it was an easy 3 points last night.

GROUP E:

Final fixtures: Sweden (4) v Poland (1), Slovakia (3) v Spain (2)

SWEDEN WIN, SLOVAKIA WIN: Sweden winners, Slovakia runners-up, Spain 3rd with 2.

SWEDEN WIN, SLOVAKIA DRAW: Sweden winners, Slovakia runners-up, Spain 3rd with 3.

SWEDEN WIN, SLOVAKIA LOSE: Sweden winners, Spain runners-up, Slovakia 3rd with 3.

SWEDEN DRAW, SLOVAKIA WIN: Slovakia winners, Sweden runners-up. If Slovakia win by more than one goal, Poland are 3rd. If they win by exactly one goal, Poland are 3rd if they score at least as many goals as Spain; Spain are 3rd if they score two more than Poland. If Spain score exactly one more than Poland, it comes down to disciplinary records.
In all cases in this scenario, third place scores 2.

SWEDEN DRAW, SLOVAKIA DRAW: Sweden winners, Slovakia runners-up, Spain 3rd with 3.

SWEDEN DRAW, SLOVAKIA LOSE: If Spain win by more than one goal, Spain winners, Sweden runners-up. If Spain win by exactly one goal, whichever of Spain and Sweden scores more goals will be winners and the other runners-up. If Spain win by exactly one goal and score the same as Sweden, it comes down to disciplinary records. Slovakia are 3rd with 3.

SWEDEN LOSE, SLOVAKIA WIN: Slovakia win, Poland runners-up, Sweden 3rd with 4.

SWEDEN LOSE, SLOVAKIA DRAW: If Poland win by more than one goal, Poland winners, Slovakia runners-up and Sweden 3rd with 4. If Poland win by exactly one goal, Poland winners, Sweden runners-up and Slovakia 3rd with 4.

SWEDEN LOSE, SLOVAKIA LOSE: Spain winners, Poland runners-up, Sweden 3rd with 4.

IM Jack Rudd wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:06 pm

In all cases in this scenario, third place scores 2.

Which probably means elimination anyway, though obviously who knows - but I notice there are already three groups where three teams have at least three points.

Yes, the only way a team can go through on 2 is if Turkey-Switzerland and Croatia-Scotland are draws, with Slovakia beating Spain and Poland not beating Sweden.

And for maximum fun Spain lose 2-1, Poland draw 0-0 and Croatia v Scotland is one apiece, or the same results with everybody getting x goals more? Do I have that right?

That would be spectacularly hard to resolve, yes.

If England and Wales both win their last group games they'll each play next at Wembley. If Scotland beat Croatia to come third in Group D there's a possibility they could play their next match in Glasgow (depending on which groups the third place qualifiers come from). That would make for some very interesting last 16 matches.

England seem to have a very practical mindset towards their games and are just getting the job done. It's nice to see they haven't conceded a goal but they have got to start scoring more surely. Looks like our next game will be much tougher.

Torn between two good games today, and then again.

Unlike yesterday, when torn between no good games.