Euro 21

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Mick Norris
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Re: Euro 21

Post by Mick Norris » Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:02 am

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:10 am
LawrenceCooper wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:23 am
David Williams wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:30 pm
I can think of three penalty shoot-outs that went the full distance, so if anything numbers 6 to 11 were under more pressure as it was sudden death.
I don't understand how that is less pressure than number 5. If it is already decided he/she won't be taking a penalty, otherwise he/she will either need to score to win or score to equalise and keep his/her team in the shoot-out. At any rate, you wouldn't save players for 6-11.
I should clarify that I meant going second. The number 5 going first's team could be 1 up or 1 down when he/she takes his/her kick.
The Dutch academic research answered the questions about which penalty had the most pressure

Personally, I'd have had Saka first and Kane at 4 or 5, but in Gareth we trust; if Rashford's had gone in, would Sancho have scored too? It doesn't matter now; 496 (?) days until Qatar starts
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NickFaulks
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Re: Euro 21

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:14 am

I am very confused about penalties. When I was a lad watching Match of the Day, a penalty taken by someone like Charlie George felt as good as a goal. He decided which corner of the net the ball would go in, kicked it as hard as he could and that was that. When players started doing little dances on the way to the ball I assumed it was to entertain the crowd, and they missed half the time.

I know there has been some change in the rule about what the goalie can do, has that really made a massive difference?
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NickFaulks
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Re: Euro 21

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:37 am

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:10 pm
Grealish saying he wanted to take a penalty, sure - but I can't help thinking of Mandy Rice Davies where this is concerned.
He didn't look very happy about not getting a go. My impression is that he is is not short of self-confidence and as tough as old boots.
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LawrenceCooper
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Re: Euro 21

Post by LawrenceCooper » Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:03 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:02 am
LawrenceCooper wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:10 am
LawrenceCooper wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:23 am


I don't understand how that is less pressure than number 5. If it is already decided he/she won't be taking a penalty, otherwise he/she will either need to score to win or score to equalise and keep his/her team in the shoot-out. At any rate, you wouldn't save players for 6-11.
I should clarify that I meant going second. The number 5 going first's team could be 1 up or 1 down when he/she takes his/her kick.
The Dutch academic research answered the questions about which penalty had the most pressure

Personally, I'd have had Saka first and Kane at 4 or 5, but in Gareth we trust; if Rashford's had gone in, would Sancho have scored too? It doesn't matter now; 496 (?) days until Qatar starts
I used to think that you should put your best players first (as it might be too late if they are lower down the order) but experienced players around 4 and 5. I seem to recall that Ronaldo has sometimes been number 5 and it has been too late for him on occasion. I guess we'll never know the order of 6-11 but it would be an eye opener if Sterling & Grealish were even lower than 6 and 7.

NickFaulks
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Re: Euro 21

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:57 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:03 pm
I guess we'll never know the order of 6-11 but it would be an eye opener if Sterling & Grealish were even lower than 6 and 7.
Pickford and Phillips supposedly.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... -Saka.html

I've seen that in several places, though probably all from the same source.
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Mick Norris
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Re: Euro 21

Post by Mick Norris » Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:24 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:03 pm
Mick Norris wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:02 am
LawrenceCooper wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:10 am


I should clarify that I meant going second. The number 5 going first's team could be 1 up or 1 down when he/she takes his/her kick.
The Dutch academic research answered the questions about which penalty had the most pressure

Personally, I'd have had Saka first and Kane at 4 or 5, but in Gareth we trust; if Rashford's had gone in, would Sancho have scored too? It doesn't matter now; 496 (?) days until Qatar starts
I used to think that you should put your best players first (as it might be too late if they are lower down the order) but experienced players around 4 and 5. I seem to recall that Ronaldo has sometimes been number 5 and it has been too late for him on occasion. I guess we'll never know the order of 6-11 but it would be an eye opener if Sterling & Grealish were even lower than 6 and 7.
No clue about Grealish; does he take them for Villa?

Nick has suggested Phillips, who had a decent game and a good tournament; it seemed to me that Shaw is a good striker of a ball, given how well he took his goal (maybe having watched Phil Neal taking penalties I'm biased towards full backs)

As I mentioned upthread, Pickford and Sterling have scored before for England so I would have assumed they were on the list

England won their previous 2 penalty shootouts, so as Southgate says, they have a process, and a system for practice

As Mbappe proved, anyone can miss a penalty under pressure
Any postings on here represent my personal views

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Euro 21

Post by LawrenceCooper » Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:36 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:57 pm
LawrenceCooper wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:03 pm
I guess we'll never know the order of 6-11 but it would be an eye opener if Sterling & Grealish were even lower than 6 and 7.
Pickford and Phillips supposedly.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... -Saka.html

I've seen that in several places, though probably all from the same source.
Thanks, interesting to see.

Mick Norris
Posts: 10328
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester

Re: Euro 21

Post by Mick Norris » Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:49 pm

Interesting thread on Twitter
Only big players miss penalties, small players don’t take them!
He's obviously studied this more than me :lol: thread
The penalty shootout in football is the essence of performing under pressure. I spent 5 years of my life studying the Psychology of this event. Here's what I learned
Players in the World Cup, Euros, and Copa America miss more shots when pressure is high (late in the shootout), have lower shooting skill (defenders), are older than 23 yrs (younger players score more), and are fatigued (played 120 min)
Any postings on here represent my personal views

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