A section to discuss matters not related to Chess in particular.
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Paul Cooksey
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by Paul Cooksey » Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:10 pm
JustinHorton wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 4:36 pm
Matt Mackenzie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 4:03 pm
I just don't "get" rap - and with respect to Justin (who I often agree with) I don't see anything "performative" in that frankly.)
Maybe think about why some people need to make the very tiresome observation about putting a "c" in front of "rap" instead of just saying they don't like or understand it, which any of us might say about any genre.
I think it is probably because there is not any similar wordplay possible with other music genres. This one is particularly effective because it has a mischievous quality, referring to a slightly rude word without actually stating it. Consequently it is popular to the point of cliche.
I understand that sometimes people use terms that can be interpreted as being offensive, hoping that they are interpreted in that way. But I do not see any reason to think that was done on this occasion.
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David Sedgwick
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by David Sedgwick » Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:04 pm
JustinHorton wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 4:29 pm
Predominantly black music comes up too often in these conversations and comes up too much in a certain way, to be comfortable with it.
MJMcCready wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 10:34 pm
Personally I cannot stand opera at all ...
So Justin, according to you, one (and only one) of those opinions is racist and must not be expressed.
It seems to me that you need to reread George Orwell's "1984".
Last edited by David Sedgwick on Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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JustinHorton
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by JustinHorton » Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:04 pm
Paul Cooksey wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:10 pm
I think it is probably because there is not any similar wordplay possible with other music genres.
Now there's a challenge.
David Sedgwick wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:04 pm
se opinions is racist and must not be expressed.
It seems to me that you need to reread George Orwell's "1984".
What a remarkably silly thing to say, David. But what should it tell us when people can't discuss this kind of issues without pretending they're being oppressed?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
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David Sedgwick
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by David Sedgwick » Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:30 pm
NickFaulks wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 2:54 pm
Give it a rest, Justin.
JustinHorton wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 4:29 pm
No, I don't think I will.
JustinHorton wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:04 pm
David Sedgwick wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:04 pm
So Justin, according to you, one (and only one) of those opinions is racist and must not be expressed.
It seems to me that you need to reread George Orwell's "1984".
What a remarkably silly thing to say, David. But what should it tell us when people can't discuss this kind of issues without pretending they're being oppressed?
There you go again. Having failed to deter or prevent me from expressing my opinions, you now seek to dismiss them as silly and fabricated.
Well, I am not planning to give it a rest either, so tough luck.
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JustinHorton
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by JustinHorton » Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:32 pm
David Sedgwick wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:30 pm
Having failed to deter or prevent me from expressing my opinions
Your courage is an inspiration to us all, David.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
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JustinHorton
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by JustinHorton » Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:42 pm
Now, here is a point that seems obvious to me but which apparently needs stating.
English chess is largely a society of old and oldish white men, something that tends to be overlooked by many of its members but which is immediately obvious to the outisder.
It would be a good idea, this being so, if we avoided behaviours which make us look like we have some of the less agreeable habits of such a society, and one of those is being loudly and crudely ignorant about black art and culture. (Another is being aggressively dismissive about women.)
It would also be a good idea if, when the subject is raised, we didn't behave like we were being terribly and horribly picked on, because that too is a pretty dismal look.
This stuff keeps happening and it's an embarrassment to our community.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
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NickFaulks
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by NickFaulks » Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:40 pm
JustinHorton wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 4:36 pm
Another recent example was a spectacularly unpleasant piece about grime in the Telegraph by Douglas Murray
I would not expect to have missed that, but I did and I can't find it.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.
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IM Jack Rudd
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by IM Jack Rudd » Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:51 pm
JustinHorton wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:04 pm
Paul Cooksey wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:10 pm
I think it is probably because there is not any similar wordplay possible with other music genres.
Now there's a challenge.
I've certainly seen plenty of swearing-based wordplay with respect to both the country and folk genres. There are presumably other examples.
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Richard Thursby
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by Richard Thursby » Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:51 pm
NickFaulks wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:40 pm
JustinHorton wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 4:36 pm
Another recent example was a spectacularly unpleasant piece about grime in the Telegraph by Douglas Murray
I would not expect to have missed that, but I did and I can't find it.
Possibly
this?
Also found
this.
Last edited by Richard Thursby on Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Roger de Coverly
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by Roger de Coverly » Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:52 pm
NickFaulks wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:40 pm
I would not expect to have missed that, but I did and I can't find it.
This one perhaps.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... dstanding/
It's behind a pay wall and the first paragraph seems more about the Mayor of London.
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NickFaulks
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by NickFaulks » Sun Jun 06, 2021 10:30 pm
Thanks, I'm sure that's the one. I didn't go back quite far enough.
Murray's criticisms of grime are not imaginative - it is just as easy, for instance, to say that Warhol's work required little skill. However, I do agree with his conclusion that grime music might seem to make the listener more likely to run around London stabbing people than to stop doing that. Mayor Khan needs to be aware of that, and perhaps he is.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.
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NickFaulks
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by NickFaulks » Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:17 pm
JustinHorton wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:42 pm
It would be a good idea, this being so, if we avoided behaviours which make us look like we have some of the less agreeable habits of such a society, and one of those is being loudly and crudely ignorant about black art and culture. (Another is being aggressively dismissive about women.)
Something rappers would of course never do.
By the way, just in case anyone here doesn't know, those who dismiss the work of Eminem cannot easily be described as being ignorant of black culture. He is white.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.
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MJMcCready
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by MJMcCready » Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:39 pm
One of the principle differences between modern day rap and the origins of hip-hop is that they rap about very different things. Hip-hop was generally up-beat, much modern day rap is far from that. In generally accepted that in the 90s rap, especially gangsta rap, went in the wrong direction.
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David Sedgwick
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by David Sedgwick » Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:24 am
JustinHorton wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:42 pm
Now, here is a point that seems obvious to me but which apparently needs stating.
English chess is largely a society of old and oldish white men, something that tends to be overlooked by many of its members but which is immediately obvious to the outisder.
It would be a good idea, this being so, if we avoided behaviours which make us look like we have some of the less agreeable habits of such a society, and one of those is being loudly and crudely ignorant about black art and culture. (Another is being aggressively dismissive about women.)
It would also be a good idea if, when the subject is raised, we didn't behave like we were being terribly and horribly picked on, because that too is a pretty dismal look.
This stuff keeps happening and it's an embarrassment to our community.
it would also be a good idea if an exchange of views about what types of music people like were not highjacked by one particular poster who seems to delight in making accusations of racism and misogyny at every conceivable opportunity.
This stuff keeps happening and it's an embarrassment to our community.
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MJMcCready
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by MJMcCready » Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:41 am
I wasn't really following it but did see something about 'black music' being potentially racist. I thought that may well be a description but not a very good one as it doesn't really reflect the diversity of it, which is all-encompassing. It seems like our forum has had its fair share of heated debates, which is a shame if that's so.