Nagorno-Karabakh

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Stewart Reuben
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Nagorno-Karabakh

Post by Stewart Reuben » Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:57 am

Shakhriah Mamedyarov on Facebook sent to me by Bogdan lalic.

Dear friends,

Although, I know it’s inappropriate to transfer the war happening between Azerbaijan and Armenia to the world chess community and use it as a campaign channel, but I can’t keep myself from sharing my feelings and using the chance to enlighten my friends around the globe.

My family and I was born in Zangilan, the region occupied by Armenian military forces more than 30 years ago. I used to live there until the age of 7 and started my chess classes in the lands, which are under occupation. My uncles used to teach chess in Zangilan and my grandad built mosques in our villages. I was a kid of 7 years and very well remember the times when we were driven out of our homes by Armenian military forces. Since then I never saw my village, only on the photos. I miss my village, I miss my childhood memories and live with the dream to come and smell the air of my homeland. And there’re almost 1 mio refugees who lost their homeland and live with the same feelings as my family does. We lost our homes, mosques, the graves of our ancestors, historical monuments, museums, culture and the childhood memories.
Azerbaijanis are not aggressors and as a proof we were patient during 30 years, waiting for peaceful liberation of our internationally recognised territories (reff. UN SC Resolutions dd. 1992: 822, 853, 874, 885). Unfortunately Armenian government consciously preferred war to piece and tries to progress in the conflict using propaganda and provocations.

For those, who’d like to have detailed and unbiased official information on the conflict, please read below:

Thank you for your care and support
God Bless all of us

1. Nagorno-Karabakh is not a disputed territory. This is the territory of Azerbaijan. Both historically and officially recognized by the whole world, including Armenia.
2. Armenia has occupied not only Nagorno-Karabakh, to which the claimant is Yerevan, but also 7 Azerbaijan regions around it, which Armenia was not going to give up all these years peacefully.
3. The war is not on the territory of Armenia. The Azerbaijani army is not trying to seize the territory of Armenia or any part of it. The war that began with the occupation of the territories of Azerbaijan more than 30 years ago and as a result of which up to 20% of the territory of Azerbaijan was occupied, is the liberating one to get the lands back to Azerbaijan.
4. Azerbaijan could liberate its territories 30 years ago. Could also do that during 30 recent years. Our country has a numerical superiority of the army, a numerical and qualitative superiority of equipment and military weapons. And if you ask why this has not been done before the answer is that as a result of the ceasefire in May 1994, the parties pledged to resolve the conflict peacefully and to do it with the help of mediators - the OSCE Minsk Group. Unfortunately, over all these years, official Yerevan has not shown the political will for the peaceful liberation of at least 1 cm2 of the occupied land.
5. Azerbaijan has repeatedly said that we are adherents of a peaceful solution to the conflict. However, with Nikol Pashinyan, the negotiation process has frozen completely, his statements contradicted the peaceful settlement of the conflict, and the increasing shelling of civilians living on the front line only transferred the conflict from partially frozen to unfrozen. The last straw in the cup of patience of official Baku was the shelling of civilians in Azerbaijan in the front-line zone on 27.09.2020

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:38 pm

Moved to its own thread; letters about territorial disputes are not media coverage of chess.

NickFaulks
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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:38 am

Just in case anyone doubts that there are two sides to every story.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/1 ... =DM1293885
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh

Post by Stewart Reuben » Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:50 am

Nick, There are often more than two sides to a story.

David Sedgwick
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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh

Post by David Sedgwick » Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:25 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:38 am
Just in case anyone doubts that there are two sides to every story.
Usually, but maybe not always.

So far, no one has responded to your post about Belarus with comments supporting Lukashenko.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:07 pm

There are certainly pro-Luka voices on social media.....
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Mick Norris
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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:44 am

Ceasefire agreed

Let's hope it holds
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

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MJMcCready
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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh

Post by MJMcCready » Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:54 am

When I lived in Baku and spoke to those who endured Soviet times they said they saw Armenians as their cousins.

John McKenna
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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh

Post by John McKenna » Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:01 pm

"When I lived in Baku and spoke to those who endured Soviet times they said they saw Armenians as their cousins."
The enemy of my enemy is my friend is an ancient proverb which suggests that two opposing parties can or should work together against a common enemy. The earliest known expression of this concept is found in a Sanskrit treatise on statecraft, the Arthashastra, which dates to around the 4th century BC...
An independent proto-Armenian state existed in the area about 330 BC.

The Turks arrived in the area in the early 11th c. AD from Central Asia, as conquerors, culminating in the whole area being subsumed into the Empire of the Seljuk Turks and later became part of the successor Empire of the Ottoman Turks.

Modern Azerbaijanis are descended from those Turkic tribes who invaded the Middle East and converted from their native religion to Islam.

Modern Armenians are longstanding Christians.

Azerbaijan only existed briefly as an independent state between 1918-1920 and after that it was subsumed, as was Aremenia, into the USSR regaining independence in 1991, as did Armenia.

Hostilities between the Armenians and Azerbaijanis had already broken out in Nagorno-Karabakh in 1988 because although Nagorno-Karabakh was notionally included in the newly independent state of Azerbaijan the majority Armenian inhabitants wanted it to become part of the newly independent state of Armenia.

With the breakup of the USSR the communist "common enemy" was no more, so former friendly "cousins" became bitter enemies along imperfect lines drawn by not just by politics but also by religion.

Now the Turks say they are the Azerbaijani's "brothers".

The relationship between the Russians and Armenians is said to be that of "allies".

The relationship between the Turks and the Russians is far more complicated than it was when Britain and France engaged the Russians in the Crimean War (1853-6) in support of the Turks.

In the wider world it is a question of how long the current Pax Americana can hold with an isolationist such as President Trump as guarantor and what regional disturbance of the peace might lead to a much greater confict between the powers that be - as the ones in the Balkans and Central Europe did in the First and Second World Wars, respectively.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Reg Clucas
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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh

Post by Reg Clucas » Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:17 pm

John McKenna wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:01 pm

Now the Turks say they are the Azerbaijani's "brothers".
Turkey was responsible for large scale genocide in Armenia during WW1. Diplomatic relations between the two are still not established.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:05 pm

Reg Clucas wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:17 pm
John McKenna wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:01 pm

Now the Turks say they are the Azerbaijani's "brothers".
Turkey was responsible for large scale genocide in Armenia during WW1
Denial of which is still the mainstream Turkish position.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

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John Clarke
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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh

Post by John Clarke » Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:15 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:05 pm
Reg Clucas wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:17 pm
John McKenna wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:01 pm

Now the Turks say they are the Azerbaijani's "brothers".
Turkey was responsible for large scale genocide in Armenia during WW1
Denial of which is still the mainstream Turkish position.
Not related to the main topic here, but it's worth reminding people about the forcible expulsion of Greeks from Asia Minor after World War I, and later mistreatment of such Greeks as were foolish enough to try staying on. As for Cyprus .... It's all of a piece with the unconscionable behaviour of Turkey and its Ottoman Empire predecessor throughout their history.
"The chess-board is the world ..... the player on the other side is hidden from us ..... he never overlooks a mistake, or makes the smallest allowance for ignorance."
(He doesn't let you resign and start again, either.)

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MJMcCready
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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh

Post by MJMcCready » Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:37 am

Reg Clucas wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:17 pm
John McKenna wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:01 pm

Now the Turks say they are the Azerbaijani's "brothers".
Turkey was responsible for large scale genocide in Armenia during WW1. Diplomatic relations between the two are still not established.
The Turks tend to look down on the Azeri's, that's what I picked up on when I lived there.

John McKenna
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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh

Post by John McKenna » Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:05 am

I'd better try to clarify the following -
John McKenna wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:01 pm

SNIP

Azerbaijan only existed briefly as an independent state between 1918-1920 and after that it was subsumed, as was Aremenia, into the USSR regaining independence in 1991, as did Armenia.

Hostilities between the Armenians and Azerbaijanis had already broken out in Nagorno-Karabakh in 1988 because although Nagorno-Karabakh was notionally included in the newly independent state of Azerbaijan the majority Armenian inhabitants wanted it to become part of the newly independent state of Armenia.

SNIP
Info from Team Nagorno-Karabakh on Chessdotcom -
Team Nagorno-Karabakh-ը թիմ է, որը պատրաստվում է ներկայացնել Արցախի անկախ հանրապետությունը աշխարհի և Ասիայի պաշտոնական խաղերում: Հարգելի հայրենակիցներ, միացեք և աջակցեք մեր թիմին կատարել առաջին քայլերը:

The Nagorno Karabagh Republic was formed on September 2, 1991 by the former Nagorno Karabagh Autonomous District and the adjacent region of Shahumyan. That day the joint session of councils of Nagorno Karabagh Autonomous District and Shahumyan Region with the participation of deputies of councils of all levels accepted a declaration of proclaiming the formation of the Nagorno Karabagh Republic.
Also -
Nagorno-Karabakh: what do residents of the contested territory want for their future?

By: Kristin M Bakke, Professor in Political Science and International Relations, UCL, Gerard Toal, Professor of Government and International Affairs, Virginia Tech, and John O’Loughlin, Professor of Geography, University of Colorado Boulder
‎Mon‎, ‎12‎ ‎October‎ ‎2020‎ ‎05‎:‎20‎ ‎PM‎ ‎BST

... We have conducted three separate surveys based on representative samples of Nagorno-Karabakh’s population. The surveys in 2011 (of 800 people) and 2013 (of 1,000 people) were fielded by the Institute of Sociology of the National Academy of Sciences of Armenia. Our February 2020 survey of 820 people was carried out by the Caucasus Research Resource Centre...

Nagorno-Karabakh was internationally recognised as part of Azerbaijan when the Soviet Union dissolved. More than 500,000 Azerbaijani residents who used to live in the territory and surrounding provinces were forcefully displaced by war. Their attitudes and views must be heard too. Government restrictions, however, makes independent research in Azerbaijan currently impossible; we have tried, unsuccessfully...
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/nagorno-karab ... 02538.html
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Mick Norris
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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh

Post by Mick Norris » Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:34 am

Aronian
My country is under assault by Turkey and Azerbaijan.

We are trying to protect ourselves and our right to live in peace. For every Armenian in the world this is now the main concern. I am going back tomorrow and will do everything I can to help my country overcome this trouble.

I will do everything to help my country with everything I can. If it is necessary for my country for me to be in the army I will do that.
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

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