Pedants United

A section to discuss matters not related to Chess in particular.
Nick Grey
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Re: Pedants United

Post by Nick Grey » Sat Feb 06, 2021 2:07 pm

To whom...

Paul Habershon
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Re: Pedants United

Post by Paul Habershon » Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:56 am

Mike Gunn wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:56 pm
Perhaps 'whom' could be antiqued, like some of those chess pieces you can buy from Chess and Bridge?
Congratulations to Paul McKeown for the thread title in General Chat: 'To whom is she referring?'

It just has to be 'whom' there.

David Sedgwick
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Re: Pedants United

Post by David Sedgwick » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:07 am

Paul Habershon wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:56 am
Congratulations to Paul McKeown for the thread title in General Chat: 'To whom is she referring?'

It just has to be 'whom' there.
I remember in my schooldays being asked to correct the sentence: "Who are you referring to?"

That must have been about 55 years ago.

Alistair Campbell
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Re: Pedants United

Post by Alistair Campbell » Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:53 pm

So, a couple of things that are irritating me:

1 - the action of people starting every other sentence with "so". (It seems to have become particularly prevalent on "Pointless".) Possibly it demonstrates a subconscious desire to conform. I've even started doing it myself. (Also, answering "I'm good", rather than "I'm well" when asked how I am.)

2 - "staycations". To me, a staycation is when you holiday at home. If you go 20 miles down the coast to stay for a week at your Auntie's, or indeed anywhere else in the same country (you could even combine it with a chess tournament) that is a "holiday".

I appreciate the first point may not really be a point of pedantry.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Pedants United

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:38 pm

"the action of people starting every other sentence with "so"."

I think maybe it gives them time to think about a reply, but that's no excuse.

Charlotte Edwards (ex-star woman cricketer) got a job commentating on Sky Sports, and in an early match every time she was asked a question, she started the reply, "Yeah, no", before actually answering. Happily, on day 2, she didn't, so I assume someone told her!

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MJMcCready
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Re: Pedants United

Post by MJMcCready » Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:22 pm

What about the following sentence: 'My team may be relegated this season, hopefully that won't happen though.' Anything wrong? If so then what?

Paul Habershon
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Re: Pedants United

Post by Paul Habershon » Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:18 pm

Alistair Campbell wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:53 pm
So, a couple of things that are irritating me:

1 - the action of people starting every other sentence with "so". (It seems to have become particularly prevalent on "Pointless".) Possibly it demonstrates a subconscious desire to conform. I've even started doing it myself. (Also, answering "I'm good", rather than "I'm well" when asked how I am.)
Agreed about 'So...' It's been around for years now. It replaces 'Well...' which is also unnecessary but inexplicably much less irritating.

Paul Habershon
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Re: Pedants United

Post by Paul Habershon » Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:50 pm

MJMcCready wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:22 pm
What about the following sentence: 'My team may be relegated this season, hopefully that won't happen though.' Anything wrong? If so then what?
I remember in the 1970s working for a classically educated headmaster who complained about the use of 'hopefully' instead of 'I hope that...'. Unfortunately it has now become mainstream. The problem in the above example is that the adverb 'hopefully' is intended to describe the speaker's feelings but the speaker is not the subject of the verb 'won't happen'.

I also think that the comma after 'season' should be a semicolon or full stop.

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MJMcCready
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Re: Pedants United

Post by MJMcCready » Fri Mar 05, 2021 10:20 pm

Paul Habershon wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:50 pm
MJMcCready wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:22 pm
What about the following sentence: 'My team may be relegated this season, hopefully that won't happen though.' Anything wrong? If so then what?
I remember in the 1970s working for a classically educated headmaster who complained about the use of 'hopefully' instead of 'I hope that...'. Unfortunately it has now become mainstream. The problem in the above example is that the adverb 'hopefully' is intended to describe the speaker's feelings but the speaker is not the subject of the verb 'won't happen'.

I also think that the comma after 'season' should be a semicolon or full stop.
Was the headmaster Welsh by chance Paul?

Paul Habershon
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Re: Pedants United

Post by Paul Habershon » Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:31 pm

MJMcCready wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 10:20 pm
Paul Habershon wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:50 pm
MJMcCready wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:22 pm
What about the following sentence: 'My team may be relegated this season, hopefully that won't happen though.' Anything wrong? If so then what?
I remember in the 1970s working for a classically educated headmaster who complained about the use of 'hopefully' instead of 'I hope that...'. Unfortunately it has now become mainstream. The problem in the above example is that the adverb 'hopefully' is intended to describe the speaker's feelings but the speaker is not the subject of the verb 'won't happen'.

I also think that the comma after 'season' should be a semicolon or full stop.
Was the headmaster Welsh by chance Paul?
No, Mark, he wasn't Welsh. You may have been thinking of Idris Hussey, a club chess player who was head of the junior school on the same campus. (Lucky I checked this post - predictive text preferred Gusset for his surname).

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MJMcCready
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Re: Pedants United

Post by MJMcCready » Sun Mar 07, 2021 11:22 pm

Paul Habershon wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:31 pm
MJMcCready wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 10:20 pm
Paul Habershon wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:50 pm


I remember in the 1970s working for a classically educated headmaster who complained about the use of 'hopefully' instead of 'I hope that...'. Unfortunately it has now become mainstream. The problem in the above example is that the adverb 'hopefully' is intended to describe the speaker's feelings but the speaker is not the subject of the verb 'won't happen'.

I also think that the comma after 'season' should be a semicolon or full stop.
Was the headmaster Welsh by chance Paul?
No, Mark, he wasn't Welsh. You may have been thinking of Idris Hussey, a club chess player who was head of the junior school on the same campus. (Lucky I checked this post - predictive text preferred Gusset for his surname).
Do you ever read Ammon Shea Paul? I think you would find the following publication interesting on a number of levels.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bad-English-Hi ... 0399165584

Paul Habershon
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Re: Pedants United

Post by Paul Habershon » Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:27 am

MJMcCready wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 11:22 pm


Do you ever read Ammon Shea Paul? I think you would find the following publication interesting on a number of levels.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bad-English-Hi ... 0399165584
That does look an interesting book. I see 'potatoe' is among many clippings on the front cover. I feel sorry for Dan Quayle, ex-US Vice-president, whose spelling mistake haunts him for ever. A Google search of his name immediately comes up with 'Dan Quayle potato'. Could happen to anyone.

Kevin Williamson
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Re: Pedants United

Post by Kevin Williamson » Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:28 am

Paul Habershon wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:27 am

That does look an interesting book. I see 'potatoe' is among many clippings on the front cover. I feel sorry for Dan Quayle, ex-US Vice-president, whose spelling mistake haunts him for ever. A Google search of his name immediately comes up with 'Dan Quayle potato'. Could happen to anyone.
On the subject of misspelling vegetables, I managed to humiliate myself at a family Zoom quiz on Saturday. When asked to name a fruit or vegetable beginning with 'e' I came up with 'eisberg lettuce' to the amusement of all. I shamed myself further by not immediately conceding and finding a couple of obscure Google links to that spelling before finally accepting defeat. I doubt I've heard the last of that although, thankfully, my audience is a bit smaller than Dan Quayle's!

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MJMcCready
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Re: Pedants United

Post by MJMcCready » Mon Mar 08, 2021 2:11 pm

Paul Habershon wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:27 am
MJMcCready wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 11:22 pm


Do you ever read Ammon Shea Paul? I think you would find the following publication interesting on a number of levels.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bad-English-Hi ... 0399165584
That does look an interesting book. I see 'potatoe' is among many clippings on the front cover. I feel sorry for Dan Quayle, ex-US Vice-president, whose spelling mistake haunts him for ever. A Google search of his name immediately comes up with 'Dan Quayle potato'. Could happen to anyone.
It's one of the most engaging texts I've ever come across. More recently, the author read the entire OED, with its more than one million entries. He writes exceptionally well, I think you'd find it interesting.

John McKenna
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Re: Pedants United

Post by John McKenna » Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:54 pm

"... And in Britain, journalists had a field day last year when it was revealed that Prime Minister Tony Blair had difficulty spelling the word tomorrow.
Downing Street initially suggested that it was Mr Blair's handwriting that made the word seem as though it were spelt as "toomorrow" three times in a letter, but the prime minister eventually admitted to having a problem with the word."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1800938.stm
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

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