Pedants United

A section to discuss matters not related to Chess in particular.
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MJMcCready
Posts: 1992
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm

Re: Pedants United

Post by MJMcCready » Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:03 pm

It's an annoying phrase because it makes you wonder whether they know they are making a mistake or just following a trend.

NickFaulks
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Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Pedants United

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:53 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:55 pm
I have also found that young non-native speakers attribute their excellent English, or rather their excellent American, to watching American films.
When I lived in Holland in the 1980s I was very envious of the ability of young people there to converse in languages other than their native Dutch. How could they not? Since before they could talk they had been watching Tom & Jerry on television, in English.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.

Kevin Thurlow
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Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: Pedants United

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:56 am

"How could they not? Since before they could talk they had been watching Tom & Jerry on television, in English."

As a digression, the brilliant pianist Lang Lang actually imitates Tom when playing one piece (I think Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody) as he watched "Cat Concerto" as a very young child.

I've encountered a number of Europeans who speak quite good English, but with American accents...

Alex McFarlane
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Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:52 pm

Re: Pedants United

Post by Alex McFarlane » Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:48 am

As this is the place for pedants: They would not have learned much English from Tom & Jerry. The main characters seldom spoke and the humans seemed to be restricted to screams and calling out "Tom".
Bugs Bunny would have been a far better example to give!!

John McKenna
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Re: Pedants United

Post by John McKenna » Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:52 pm

Sunday night on her regular LBC Radio slot the stumbling (when it comes to public speaking) sister of the UK's mumbling Prime Minister came up with -

"People are waiting for Joe Biden to pull the cat out of the bag."

Have public schools and Oxbridge been dumbing down?
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

NickFaulks
Posts: 6283
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Pedants United

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:33 pm

John McKenna wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:52 pm
Have public schools and Oxbridge been dumbing down?
They're letting anyone in nowadays.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.

Kevin Thurlow
Posts: 4306
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: Pedants United

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:59 am

I don't have shares in redmolotov, this is purely for info...

https://www.redmolotov.com/the-pedants-revolt-tshirt

Paul Habershon
Posts: 324
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:51 pm

Re: Pedants United

Post by Paul Habershon » Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:41 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:59 am
I don't have shares in redmolotov, this is purely for info...

https://www.redmolotov.com/the-pedants-revolt-tshirt
A fine example of why the apostrophe should be carefully preserved. 'The Pedants' Revolt' title on the shirt tells us that more than one pedant is involved. Also without the apostrophe 'revolt' becomes a verb and the meaning is changed.

I think there's a pedantic joke about the Revolt's leader, Wat Tyler, but I've forgotten the exact wording.

Kevin Thurlow
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Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: Pedants United

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:37 pm

"I think there's a pedantic joke about the Revolt's leader, Wat Tyler, but I've forgotten the exact wording."

Barry Cryer - "Who led the Pedants' Revolt? Which Tyler."

Neil Graham
Posts: 1598
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:36 pm

Re: Pedants United

Post by Neil Graham » Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:24 pm

I've just had an e-mail from East Midlands Railway to "enter our new innovation contest".

Paul Habershon
Posts: 324
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:51 pm

Re: Pedants United

Post by Paul Habershon » Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:20 am

Recent question in 'The Times' daily quiz (where I rarely get more than half marks): Who did Robert Greene (c 1558-92) call 'an upstart crow, beautified with our feathers'?

The first word of the question should surely be 'whom'. Is it gradually falling out of use? Needless to say, I rather like it and would preserve it.

Incidentally I didn't know the answer.

Tim Spanton
Posts: 834
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 11:35 am

Re: Pedants United

Post by Tim Spanton » Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:55 am

Paul Habershon wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:20 am
Recent question in 'The Times' daily quiz (where I rarely get more than half marks): Who did Robert Greene (c 1558-92) call 'an upstart crow, beautified with our feathers'?

The first word of the question should surely be 'whom'. Is it gradually falling out of use? Needless to say, I rather like it and would preserve it.

Incidentally I didn't know the answer.
Are you sure about this?
Surely the subject of the sentence is the person referred to by Robert Greene, rather than Robert Greene himself, and so who should be used rather than whom.
Also, there seems to be a generally accepted rule that questions start with who rather than whom. The Cambridge Dictionary states in a discussion of "Who, whom" that "we use who as an interrogative pronoun to begin questions about people."

Paul Habershon
Posts: 324
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:51 pm

Re: Pedants United

Post by Paul Habershon » Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:42 am

Tim Spanton wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:55 am
Paul Habershon wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:20 am
Recent question in 'The Times' daily quiz (where I rarely get more than half marks): Who did Robert Greene (c 1558-92) call 'an upstart crow, beautified with our feathers'?

The first word of the question should surely be 'whom'. Is it gradually falling out of use? Needless to say, I rather like it and would preserve it.

Incidentally I didn't know the answer.
Are you sure about this?
Surely the subject of the sentence is the person referred to by Robert Greene, rather than Robert Greene himself, and so who should be used rather than whom.
Also, there seems to be a generally accepted rule that questions start with who rather than whom. The Cambridge Dictionary states in a discussion of "Who, whom" that "we use who as an interrogative pronoun to begin questions about people."
I'm standing my ground for the time being, Tim. Grammatically the main verb is 'did call' and the subject is Robert Greene, who did the calling. The interrogative pronoun 'who', beginning questions about people, would be correct if the question started 'Who is the person that Robert Greene called....'

For Whom the Bell Tolls!

Nick Ivell
Posts: 429
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:33 pm

Re: Pedants United

Post by Nick Ivell » Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:24 pm

I don't like 'whom', and think it truly antiquated, except after a preposition on occasion.

Mike Gunn
Posts: 808
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:45 pm

Re: Pedants United

Post by Mike Gunn » Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:56 pm

Perhaps 'whom' could be antiqued, like some of those chess pieces you can buy from Chess and Bridge?

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