COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

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John McKenna
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Re: COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

Post by John McKenna » Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:40 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:15 pm
John McKenna wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:53 pm
Many would say Winston Churchill, but he lost the first election he fought after WW II. How to account for that?
Almost everyone who spent the war in the Far East, and their friends and families, loathed him. Both of my parents voted Labour for the only time in their lives.
There may well have been a wider underlying distrust of Churchill as an immediate postwar PM for a number of reasons to do with both WW Ii and before.

He was back as PM after the General Election in 1951 the Conservatives haing lost narrowly to Labour in the 1950 General Election. Labour must have self-destructed but Churchill was more acceptable by then, too, it would appear.

How Boris will compare with his hero is yet to be determined but in terms of experience he is still a political tyro and most of his Cabinet are still wet behind the ears.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:43 am

The answer is {null} surely, because the office of Prime Minister was instituted post-1707.

John McKenna
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Re: COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

Post by John McKenna » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:39 am

Technically correct, Jack, since the question was -
Who was the last Prime Minister of England that gained the respect of the nation and did their job well enough?
Out of 55 Prime Ministers of Great Britain '& (Northern) Ireland 9 were born in Scotland, 3 in Ireland, 1 in the USA and none in Wales. Also 1 born in Canada (See next 2 posts below.)

Proportional representation is what that is I suppose.
Last edited by John McKenna on Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Alex McFarlane
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Re: COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

Post by Alex McFarlane » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:18 am

John McKenna wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:39 am
Out of 55 Prime Ministers of Great Britain '& (Northern) Ireland 9 were born in Scotland, 3 in Ireland, 1 in the USA and none in Wales.
Wasn't Bonar Law born in Canada?

John McKenna
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Re: COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

Post by John McKenna » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:32 pm

Yes, that's correct, Alex (and good to hear from you).

"Andrew Bonar Law was a British Conservative politician who served as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom from 1922 to 1923. Law was born in the British colony of New Brunswick in 1858.

The first British prime minister to be born outside the British Isles. He was of Scottish and Ulster Scots descent and moved to Scotland in 1870." (Wikipedia)
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

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MJMcCready
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Re: COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

Post by MJMcCready » Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:44 pm

If we take a step back, has the calibre and credibility of those holding power improved and on the up or has it gone in another direction? The argument from some commentators that since the 80s both the US and UK have gone into a slow but steady decline in terms of political acumen, part of which is down to the drive of neoliberalism which both Reagan and Thatcher set in motion, Thatcher initiating it with her 'privatisation' efforts. it seems to me like both countries are in such a mess there isn't much anyone can do.

John McKenna
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Re: COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

Post by John McKenna » Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:01 pm

With Joe positioned to replace Don in the US you could say the corner has been turned there.

It must be said though that nature's response - with the helping hand of man - in the form of the pandemic to Trump's trade war with China couldn't have been worse for the former, in dometic political terms, and better for the latter, in geopolitical terms. Who could have foreseen what has happened in the last year or so? (Apart from writers of fiction or disaster planners that is.)

As for the UK turning a corner in the the future your guess is as good as mine. Except to say that the shoe is on the other foot here as compared to he US.

Boris "born in the USA" Johnson is not buckling and the Tories are as united (despite the permanent cracks and occasional fissures) as the US Democrats while Labour has already been split (it was a disgrace to see the constant undermining of Corbyn then Hoey & Mann, and other "Labour" MPs, voting with the Tories on Brexit) like the US Republicans are now.

So, who will be the next Prime Minister of the UK and when?

Better not be too long coming as Boris may soon have dismantled the Union singlehandedly.

Perhaps he is the only one of the 55 Prime Ministers to date who would be prepared to see that happen to ensure that the Conservative Party could be almost permanently in power in a purely 'Englsh' Parliament.

PS MJM did not mention, above, the continuation of Thatcherism that took place under the Blair & Brown "New Labour" brand once Major the caretaker had gone.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

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Re: COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:15 pm

"With Joe positioned to replace Don in the US you could say the corner has been turned there."

In some ways, but Biden is no friend of the UK (same reason as the Kennedy family). I am not saying having Trump as a "friend" is desirable.

John McKenna
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Re: COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

Post by John McKenna » Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:39 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:15 pm
"With Joe positioned to replace Don in the US you could say the corner has been turned there."

In some ways, but Biden is no friend of the UK (same reason as the Kennedy family). I am not saying having Trump as a "friend" is desirable.
I'm sure you are speaking in terms of personal as well as international relations there, Kevin.

You did not include Obama or any of the early US Presidents who, while in office, could have acted upon grudges 'harbored' against the British Empire.

Of course the manifest destiny of the United States from the outset was to replace British Colonialism & Imperialism with American versions at home and abroad, respectively.
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To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:58 pm

"You did not include Obama or any of the early US Presidents who, while in office could have acted upon grudges harboured against the British Empire."

I have visited Thomas Jefferson's house, Mount Rushmore, JFK's "Airforce 1", and the Book Depository in Dallas and I did get Obama's autobiography as a Christmas Present. That's about the limit of my Presidential knowledge.

And don't mention "harboured" - I haven't forgotten the tea incident yet.

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Re: COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:05 pm

Oh, and I have visited the Lincoln Memorial and other nearby parts of DC, but I didn't smash the place up...

John McKenna
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Re: COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

Post by John McKenna » Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:43 pm

Thanks for the guided tour, Kevin.

Geoff Chandler once sent me a book all about Lincoln from his vast library of chess congresses (Not sure how it found its way in but Geoff was happy to let it go.)

Maybe he was trying to tell me something like - Get out of town more. Go West...

I also have a whole other book all about the United States America.

Must read them again to see where they went wrong.

When I left China in the year 2000 they asked me to leave my book all about the UK behind with them.

And, look how strong they've come on since then. Seems like only yesterday they were signing up to a 50 year pledge to "one country two systems" and how soon they've changed that old worn-out model.

I also left a copy of Shakespeare's Julius Caesar behind with them just in case anyone got too big for Mao's boots but they seem not to have understood the vintage English it was couched in and they're back on the one leader, one country, one people long march.

They are as patriotic as the Yanks (pardon me), and far more patient, so all the "love the people, hate the party" woke media gaga you hear will not cut any ice as they seek their place in the Sun.
Last edited by John McKenna on Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

John McKenna
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Re: COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

Post by John McKenna » Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:04 pm

At long last -

"Covid: arrivals to UK will need to show a negative test before entry... "

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/arrivals-uk-s ... 22025.html

But read this and weep -

"EU citizens will be banned from using ID cards to enter the UK from October because they are so easy to fake they are being widely used by terrorists, criminals and illegal immigrants to enter the country... "

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/uk-ban-eu-cit ... 42984.html

FAR TOO LITTLE AND FAR TOO LATE!!
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:21 pm

"EU citizens will be banned from using ID cards to enter the UK from October because they are so easy to fake they are being widely used by terrorists, criminals and illegal immigrants to enter the country... "

I was told by some Brexiteers that they voted for Brexit, so UK could stop such incursions. I didn't think it would work...

John McKenna
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Re: COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

Post by John McKenna » Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:47 pm

Upthread I asked -

So, who will be the next Prime Minister of the UK and when?

What do you think of Nigel Farage as a candidate for the position?

And do you think if he were in the job he just might do enough to stop the continuation of the vast majority of the myriads of border 'incursions' that successive UK goverments have just stood by and watched happen over the years?
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

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