Euro 21

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Euro 21

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:01 pm

GROUP F:

Final fixtures: France (4) v Portugal (3), Germany (3) v Hungary (1)

FRANCE WIN, GERMANY WIN OR DRAW: France winners, Germany runners-up, Portugal 3rd with 3.

FRANCE WIN, GERMANY LOSE: France winners, Hungary runners-up, Germany 3rd with 3.

FRANCE DRAW, GERMANY WIN: Germany winners, France runners-up, Portugal 3rd with 4.

FRANCE DRAW, GERMANY DRAW: France winners, Germany runners-up, Portugal 3rd with 4.

FRANCE DRAW, GERMANY LOSE: France winners, Portugal runners-up, Hungary 3rd with 4.

FRANCE LOSE, GERMANY WIN: Germany winners, Portugal runners-up, France 3rd with 4.

FRANCE LOSE, GERMANY DRAW: Portugal winners, France runners-up, Germany 3rd with 4.

FRANCE LOSE, GERMANY LOSE: Portugal winners. If the combined victory margins total 5 or more, Hungary runners-up and France 3rd. If they total 3 or less, France runners-up and Hungary 3rd.
If they total exactly 4 and Hungary do not outscore France, France runners-up and Hungary 3rd. If Hungary outscore France by 2 or more, Hungary runners-up and France 3rd. If Hungary outscore France by exactly 1, it comes down to disciplinary points.
In all cases in this scenario, 3rd place scores 4.

Simon Rogers
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Re: Euro 21

Post by Simon Rogers » Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:10 pm

MJMcCready wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:37 am
England were poor against Scotland.
Yeah I agree Mark. Although the Scottish contingent on the forum will be happy.
Good performance by Germany. You can never write off the Germans.

NickFaulks
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Re: Euro 21

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:19 pm

Simon Rogers wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:10 pm
Although the Scottish contingent on the forum will be happy.
I'm not sure they should. Not a bad result, but they needed to win and might have won.
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JustinHorton
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Re: Euro 21

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:58 pm

Within certain definitions of "needed to win"
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JustinHorton
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Re: Euro 21

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:14 pm

In case it should prove helpful in discussions of what teams are likely to need to qualify for the knockout stage, let me post (from Wikipedia) the table of the third-placed teams from the 2016 tournament

Image

as well as those from two World Cups with the same format (six groups of four, three points for a win, sixteen teams to qualify) these being the tournaments of 1990

Image

and 1994.

Image
"Do you play chess?"
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lostontime.blogspot.com

NickFaulks
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Re: Euro 21

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:23 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:58 pm
Within certain definitions of "needed to win"
My definition would be that, in terms of likelihood of qualification, the difference between a win and a draw was greater than the difference between a draw and a loss. In chess terms, Scotland are not a highly rated team, so any opportunity to take advantage of opponents who were below par was worth taking risks for.
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MJMcCready
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Re: Euro 21

Post by MJMcCready » Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:44 pm

Simon Rogers wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:10 pm
MJMcCready wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:37 am
England were poor against Scotland.
Yeah I agree Mark. Although the Scottish contingent on the forum will be happy.
Good performance by Germany. You can never write off the Germans.
No, definitely not after today's performance.

I think England thought it was an easy 3 points last night.

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Euro 21

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:06 pm

GROUP E:

Final fixtures: Sweden (4) v Poland (1), Slovakia (3) v Spain (2)

SWEDEN WIN, SLOVAKIA WIN: Sweden winners, Slovakia runners-up, Spain 3rd with 2.

SWEDEN WIN, SLOVAKIA DRAW: Sweden winners, Slovakia runners-up, Spain 3rd with 3.

SWEDEN WIN, SLOVAKIA LOSE: Sweden winners, Spain runners-up, Slovakia 3rd with 3.

SWEDEN DRAW, SLOVAKIA WIN: Slovakia winners, Sweden runners-up. If Slovakia win by more than one goal, Poland are 3rd. If they win by exactly one goal, Poland are 3rd if they score at least as many goals as Spain; Spain are 3rd if they score two more than Poland. If Spain score exactly one more than Poland, it comes down to disciplinary records.
In all cases in this scenario, third place scores 2.

SWEDEN DRAW, SLOVAKIA DRAW: Sweden winners, Slovakia runners-up, Spain 3rd with 3.

SWEDEN DRAW, SLOVAKIA LOSE: If Spain win by more than one goal, Spain winners, Sweden runners-up. If Spain win by exactly one goal, whichever of Spain and Sweden scores more goals will be winners and the other runners-up. If Spain win by exactly one goal and score the same as Sweden, it comes down to disciplinary records. Slovakia are 3rd with 3.

SWEDEN LOSE, SLOVAKIA WIN: Slovakia win, Poland runners-up, Sweden 3rd with 4.

SWEDEN LOSE, SLOVAKIA DRAW: If Poland win by more than one goal, Poland winners, Slovakia runners-up and Sweden 3rd with 4. If Poland win by exactly one goal, Poland winners, Sweden runners-up and Slovakia 3rd with 4.

SWEDEN LOSE, SLOVAKIA LOSE: Spain winners, Poland runners-up, Sweden 3rd with 4.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Euro 21

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:19 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:06 pm
In all cases in this scenario, third place scores 2.
Which probably means elimination anyway, though obviously who knows - but I notice there are already three groups where three teams have at least three points.
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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Euro 21

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:27 pm

Yes, the only way a team can go through on 2 is if Turkey-Switzerland and Croatia-Scotland are draws, with Slovakia beating Spain and Poland not beating Sweden.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Euro 21

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:36 pm

And for maximum fun Spain lose 2-1, Poland draw 0-0 and Croatia v Scotland is one apiece, or the same results with everybody getting x goals more? Do I have that right?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Euro 21

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:54 pm

That would be spectacularly hard to resolve, yes.

Kevin Williamson
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Re: Euro 21

Post by Kevin Williamson » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:53 am

If England and Wales both win their last group games they'll each play next at Wembley. If Scotland beat Croatia to come third in Group D there's a possibility they could play their next match in Glasgow (depending on which groups the third place qualifiers come from). That would make for some very interesting last 16 matches.

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MJMcCready
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Re: Euro 21

Post by MJMcCready » Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:08 pm

England seem to have a very practical mindset towards their games and are just getting the job done. It's nice to see they haven't conceded a goal but they have got to start scoring more surely. Looks like our next game will be much tougher.

NickFaulks
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Re: Euro 21

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:43 pm

Torn between two good games today, and then again.

Unlike yesterday, when torn between no good games.
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