Which style of music don't you like and why?

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JustinHorton
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Re: Which style of music don't you like and why?

Post by JustinHorton » Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:42 pm

Well I guess the problem is that no community can properly even begin to discuss racism or sexism if the absolute priority is that nobody can be accused of it. So much is elementary.

Similarly, a community which inevitably responds to such discussions with screaming defensiveness and hostility - and really, this happens over and again - is a community which is in no way equipped to have that discussion. It's also a community which looks absolutely terrible to outsiders. These are all things we should care about. Not this shrieking how-dare-you, which tells people what we really care about.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Paul Cooksey
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Re: Which style of music don't you like and why?

Post by Paul Cooksey » Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:42 pm

I'm glad Justin clarified his position, since it saves me the trouble of trying to politely say to Jon that I don't think his understanding of that position was correct.

I think accusing someone of racism without foundation is grounds for libel. Admittedly based on only a quick google search, and seeing that some people have been awarded substantial damages. Which doesn't mean Justin is wrong, but does mean he is talking about a broader community than just this forum, or indeed chess players.

J T Melsom
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Re: Which style of music don't you like and why?

Post by J T Melsom » Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:34 pm

Paul

I'd very much welcome an explanation by private message. After all you have told the rest of the forum I'm wrong, but I'm none the wiser. Better still if I've misrepresented Justin would be for Justin to say so. But to be honest this is all rather incidental.

David Sedgwick
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Re: Which style of music don't you like and why?

Post by David Sedgwick » Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:31 pm

J T Melsom wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:41 pm
Reflecting overnight I have a genuine sense of puzzlement, because you (David) have previously shared with us an experience of changing behaviour when advised on a visit to Africa that it was culturally inappropriate. So you understand the need for respect and courtesy, yet in this instance would rather defend the right of those to do the opposite. Is it simply that you don't see the posts in that light?
I actually said subconsciously racist rather than culturally inappropriate. Specifically:
David Sedgwick wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:30 pm
However, I was called to account for subconscious racism by GM Maurice Ashley when we were in Côte d'Ivoire. I changed a decision and apologised.
On that occasion I was the arbiter of a tournament and a distinguished black Grandmaster explained to me firmly but politely that I'd got things wrong.

If I had made the relevant post in this instance and Justin or anyone else had sent me a private message politely asking me to reconsider whether my choice of words was appropriate, then I would have been willing to make an apology on this occasion also.

However, Justin's actual response was, and remains, very different in tone. I felt, and continue to feel, that it should not go unchallenged.

J T Melsom
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Re: Which style of music don't you like and why?

Post by J T Melsom » Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:55 pm

David,

Thanks for the clarification on what you posted over twelve months ago and its relevance to this thread. I must confess to a general sense of bemusement at the attitudes expressed in this thread, but am going to stop there and await Paul Cooksey's private message and clarification therein. No need for my allegedly muddled thinking to get in the way.

Paul Cooksey
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Re: Which style of music don't you like and why?

Post by Paul Cooksey » Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:52 pm

I don't use the PM system. It was only the point already made, that if I understand Justin's position he is going further than politely asking people to reconsider their words, and calling out what he considers unacceptable behaviour.

J T Melsom
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Re: Which style of music don't you like and why?

Post by J T Melsom » Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:03 pm

I see, as I feared, after centuries of black people being oppressed not just denigrated by nasty words there are people objecting to Justin's tone. I'm sorry if David feels offended by that, and have used different methods myself, but as somebody who has actually been bullied in this place and received little support from anybody, I honestly don't see that much to get worked up about in this instance. Its just a robust debate. Some would say still a little too civilised given the speed at which things improve for minority groups.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Which style of music don't you like and why?

Post by JustinHorton » Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:41 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:31 pm
I felt, and continue to feel, that it should not go unchallenged.
I guess not allowing things to go unchallenged is our watchword here, and a very good one it is too.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

David Sedgwick
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Re: Which style of music don't you like and why?

Post by David Sedgwick » Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:14 pm

J T Melsom wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:03 pm
I'm sorry if David feels offended by that ...
Justin's tone doesn't offend me. It unnerves me and it annoys me.

I'm going to leave it there unless there are any new points.

J T Melsom
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Re: Which style of music don't you like and why?

Post by J T Melsom » Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:13 pm

Oh dear -just been onto a normally sensible football forum (by football standards). Somebody has referred on a music thread to 'wrap' and 'wrappers'. :roll:

David Gilbert
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Re: Which style of music don't you like and why?

Post by David Gilbert » Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:40 pm

Look. Even Rappers have feelings. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lg51dzWHJE

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