A very pertinent blog post

Discuss anything you like about women's chess at home and abroad.
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Rob Thompson
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Re: A very pertinent blog post

Post by Rob Thompson » Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:47 pm

I think you'll find that a very small minority of sexual abusers are convicted in those disciplines as well.
True glory lies in doing what deserves to be written; in writing what deserves to be read.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: A very pertinent blog post

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:53 pm

"How come the police chased Brian Eley?"

They didn't. They released him on police bail and seemed surprised when he went away.

Geoff Chandler
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Re: A very pertinent blog post

Post by Geoff Chandler » Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:57 pm

"The parents should have reported this sexual abuse to the police."

Agree 100% or at the very least reported what ever happened to the club.

The lass did not go into details except to say he may get "fined."
Rapists/molesters do not get fined they get jailed.

The sexual abuse she mentioned may have been of a verbal nature
which, in the eyes of the law, is not as serious as physical sexual abuse
but can be very distressing to the victim.

If this guy was dropping lewd inuendos to a minor he should be reported
for the sake of any other junior players he comes in contact with.

Her parents shrug of the shoulders sounds very strange.
All parents I know would be round the club right away, the lad would have a fat lip.

The girl, no matter how distressful, has a duty to take this further.
Someone in the future may get harmed.

It's all guys posting in this thread, none of us can imagine some of the 'banter' girls have to put up with.
Female players I know have told me of some incredible incidents.
It seems we guys are not very graceful losers if our opponents are female players.

Andrew Bak
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Re: A very pertinent blog post

Post by Andrew Bak » Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:04 am

I've only ever played a handful women/girls in my career. I've also only been involved in a few matches/tournaments where there has been a female participant in my section

I think without exception I hear at least one of some variation of the following:

"Make sure you don't lose to a girl"
"You won't be able to concentrate playing against her"
"Get a good look when she leans forward"
"It's good to see someone with nice [INSERT BODY PART] playing"

Some of these comments have been made well within earshot of the female concerned.

This must be pretty disconcerting and off-putting to women who are interested in the game to be constantly bombarded with this kind of attitude.

Unfortunately I fear that as long as chess is a male-dominated sport, this kind of seedy attitude will always exist unless there is a seismic change in the general culture.

stevencarr

Re: A very pertinent blog post

Post by stevencarr » Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:25 am

I agree with Andrew.

Louise Sinclair
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Re: A very pertinent blog post

Post by Louise Sinclair » Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:45 pm

Ian Kingston wrote:
stevencarr wrote:The author of the post claimed she was sexually abused, but did not report it.

She should have reported it to the police, or per parents should have reported it to the police.

I wonder why her parents did not report what had happened to her daughter.

Put these perpetrators behind bars, as happened in similar cases in gymnastics, swimming and tennis.
The reasons why women don't report these things are very simple: they are not usually believed (how long did it take for Jimmy Savile's victims to be believed?); when they are taken seriously they are obliged to repeat (and relive) what happened over and over; it's insinuated that they were somehow to blame; and if it goes to court they have to go through all that yet again, with a barrister attempting character assassination in order to defend the accused.

Under the circumstances it's easy to see why women prefer to just walk away.
stevencarr wrote:At least nobody threatened to break somebody's f***ing arm.
No, but women do receive repeated threats of violent rape.

All of this is well understood by the majority of women. Men tend not to see it because the sexism and threats are not directed at us.
Women are frequently ignored in cases of sexual abuse. I was nine when raped by male babysitter - I had a vaginal discharge which was indicative of abuse - reaction from parents and NHS apathy and no action. When I was older further abuse from stepfather - family fully aware - ran away and reported actions to police - result stepfather invited to collect absconding victim lol.
It happens usually with family or family friends. Often highly dysfunctional family so it continues with the children being targeted by abusers BECAUSE of their sensed vulnerability and lack of family protection. It is rarely a dirty old man in a rain coat who is a stranger.
Then often the victim is blamed for looking provocative and leading the man on.... and it continues ad infinitum.
Maybe others do as I do and prefer to sleep in a bus shelter aged 16 and starving with no help from authority. Better then being beaten violently and lifted from the floor hearing your only decent jumper being ripped as the family sits and watches - and laughs.
Many people are not very pleasant - best reply is to grow up and succeed in life.
Louise
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' you turn if you want. The lady's not for turning'

Louise Sinclair
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Re: A very pertinent blog post

Post by Louise Sinclair » Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:47 pm

Andrew Bak wrote:I've only ever played a handful women/girls in my career. I've also only been involved in a few matches/tournaments where there has been a female participant in my section

I think without exception I hear at least one of some variation of the following:

"Make sure you don't lose to a girl"
"You won't be able to concentrate playing against her"
"Get a good look when she leans forward"
"It's good to see someone with nice [INSERT BODY PART] playing"

Some of these comments have been made well within earshot of the female concerned.

This must be pretty disconcerting and off-putting to women who are interested in the game to be constantly bombarded with this kind of attitude.

Unfortunately I fear that as long as chess is a male-dominated sport, this kind of seedy attitude will always exist unless there is a seismic change in the general culture.
I have experienced a few variants of the above comments and frankly I just laughed - those guys are pussy cats compared to the really nasty ones.
Louise
You might very well think that ; I couldn't possibly comment.
' you turn if you want. The lady's not for turning'

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: A very pertinent blog post

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:49 pm

Geoff Chandler wrote:"The parents should have reported this sexual abuse to the police."

Agree 100% or at the very least reported what ever happened to the club.

The lass did not go into details except to say he may get "fined."
Rapists/molesters do not get fined they get jailed.
...
I think you're misreading this, Geoff - she thought the culprit would get "fired", ie presumably by the Club. (In France there is more likely to be a salaried coach at a Club). That is to say, that as well as not going to the police - which is perfectly understandable for a whole host of other reasons - she could not even face complaining to someone at the Club to get the guy kicked out so that she could continue to play chess there ... because others would resent the dismissal of the coach (who would no doubt be telling his friends at the Club that she was lying and that the club just treated him as a scapegoat as a gesture to avoid publicity, or whatever) and they would make life uncomfortable for her. Thus another problem with a 95% male environment, when everyone else around is more likely to be a friend of the abuser than a good friend with the victim.

Geoff Chandler
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Re: A very pertinent blog post

Post by Geoff Chandler » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:12 pm

Hi John,

I've re-read it, yes it's 'fired' not 'fined' the squiggly writing caught me out - cheers.
Even so, being fired from a chess club is no punishment.
So I am still assuming it was of a verbal nature as I honestly cannot see any parent
from any country ignoring anything more serious than a lewd remark.

I agree it is a miserable situation to be in, her word against his.
She told her parents, what more could she do?

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David Shepherd
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Re: A very pertinent blog post

Post by David Shepherd » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:34 pm

Geoff Chandler wrote:So I am still assuming it was of a verbal nature
Sadly I think that is very unlikely to be the case.

From her blog:

"I was 16 when that teacher went wrong and abused me. My parents were as disoriented as I was (at first I didn't want to tell my father because I was sure he'd kill the man who had done this to his daughter). That man was in a very complicated situation, and he went to talk with my parents himself, and decided to change. I believe (I may be wrong) that he acted this way towards a woman only once in his life, and was really shaken by his own behaviour afterwards. I also believe that he's a changed man. "

Louise Sinclair
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Re: A very pertinent blog post

Post by Louise Sinclair » Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:05 pm

It is remarkable how often peopple remain complicit but then again as the abuser is in a more powerful position than the other person I truly think it is part of human nature to either turn a blind eye or join in with it.
You might very well think that ; I couldn't possibly comment.
' you turn if you want. The lady's not for turning'

Geoff Chandler
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Re: A very pertinent blog post

Post by Geoff Chandler » Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:25 am

Hi David,

I only read what the link took me too. Not the link to her blog.

Yes sadly there does indeed seem to be more to it than verbal.

The girl has opened up and not keeping it bottle up which with my zilch knowledge
about these things I guess that is good. Yes?

Quite a talented artist, I only hope with all her new followers she does not inherit
some of the nutters that are out there. The kind she mentioned who made them stupid
comments on the live feed during the World Championship.
I don't know why they allow niks on a WC site, or even allow live comments, it's just an outlet for freaks.

I am a great beliver in sites like this where only real names are used.
Yes even then it does get out of hand sometime but imagine what it would be like if we were all nameless.

Louise Sinclair
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Re: A very pertinent blog post

Post by Louise Sinclair » Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:44 am

The girl has opened up and not keeping it bottle up which with my zilch knowledge
about these things I guess that is good. Yes?
Yes it is a good thing she has opened up. In my case I remained silent for years - many people do. It is important to remember that boys also suffer from this type of behaviour from predators and women can also be abusers. How many have been affected by sexual abuse in chess is anyones guess. I certainly never suffered in this manner during chess time but I have heard accounts from others (men) - some well known who shall remain nameless.
I know that not only did these men feel abused they also felt that an assumption was made about teir sexual inclinations which was not true and caused them considerable distress.
One guy paid a heavy price and developed quite a few addictions.
Louise
You might very well think that ; I couldn't possibly comment.
' you turn if you want. The lady's not for turning'

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