Women's In-Tournament Training

Discuss anything you like about women's chess at home and abroad.
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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Women's In-Tournament Training

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:19 am

LozCooper wrote:Why is it that whenever an organiser appears on the scene with a new intiative there are always people waiting to flood the thread with so many negative comments? Why not applaud them for their time and effort and wish them well? Why is there a need for such negativity?
I don't have any answer to that (except to say that we should remember to applaud such efforts, or say something positive about the volunteer efforts, even if being critical about elements of such things). One thing that did shock me in this thread was the testosterone comment, which I thought was over the top and I was surprised no-one else commented on that. If I'd seen it at the time, I would have asked the forum moderators to look at it, but it is days old now, so no point really.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Women's In-Tournament Training

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:30 am

Gareth Harley-Yeo wrote:Maybe Sean can try other initiatives like reduced entries for Northerners at Southern events, or reduced entry for Southerners at Northern events - This might also increase entries and compensate those who live some distance from the event for their travel costs.
This is a good idea. I hope Sean considers it!

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Women's In-Tournament Training

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:34 am

LozCooper wrote:
Louise Sinclair wrote:
Louise - I think this is the point you are missing. From a commercial point of view the women as a whole are not contributing equally,the majority are not contributing at all - they are not playing chess/entering tournaments, a very high percentage of entry fees come from men
I'm not missing any point - the women are not being forced to stay away from chess events. They are welcome to arrive in force at our event but I will not have the other players subsidising the costs. It would breed resentment and that is an emotion I don't want associated with an event I'm responsible for.I call antagonising your main clients bad businness.
Incidentally we offer large prizes and usually show a profit so I'm doing something right.
Louise
You will also find that Sean has enjoyed some degree of success as an organiser to the extent that his tournaments were voted the best in the UK. Rather than criticising his policies (which are further evidence of his many innovative ideas to increase the number of players supporting his events) is it beyond you to give credit to anyone but yourself and the North Circular Chess League? You, your league and your tournaments may be wonderful and the best things ever but does it mean that everyone and everything else deserves to be treated with such contempt?
I didn't see any contempt in what Louise Sinclair posted. Just principled statements of her chess organising philosophy. Am I missing something?

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Women's In-Tournament Training

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:37 am

Maria Yurenok wrote:Louise, I have read the whole thread and there was sufficient provocation on your part for Sabrina to respond to.
Two wrongs make a right? I don't think anything justified the testosterone comment, which is still visible. I don't know what the other comment made was that was removed, but I wasn't aware that things had got to the level where the forum moderators had to remove comments made by ECF volunteers. That doesn't sound good. I can accept that there was provocation, but it is important sometimes to not respond to provocation.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Women's In-Tournament Training

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:43 am

Gary Cook wrote:, be it the woman's boards in county chess and at 4NCL
Gary
To be factual about it, there is no woman's board requirement in County Chess. There was a proposal once , that there should be, or that female presence should influence a tie break in your favour. As far as I am aware, there was no support and it was dropped.

There is no female board requirement in the 4NCL and never has been. All that was required is at least one male and at least one female player. Provided that a single female player has a rating not more than 80 points below the lowest rated male player, she can play on as high a board as the 80 point rule and the team's requirements permit. You frequently see matches where this happens.

Bottom board of many 4NCL teams in the top two divisions is 2000 - 2100. Is it that difficult to reach that standard? Many male players do. The point perhaps is that if you didn't have the one female, one male rule, women would only get to play in the top divisions of the 4NCL if their rating or playing strength was in that range.

In other countries, Germany and France spring to mind, there is a separate national team competition for women.
Last edited by Roger de Coverly on Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Women's In-Tournament Training

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:44 am

Carl Hibbard wrote:
Maria Yurenok wrote:It's been all downhill since then and I think the best option for this thread would be for you to stop pursuing that conversation with Sabrina as it doesn't seem to be leading anywhere good.
As I have pointed out more than once both in public and private :roll:
Would it be possible to put a warning note on threads like this? Ideally, I should have read the whole way through before posting replies that with hindsight I now see might stir up old emotions, and I'm regretting some of the posts I've made. Is there no way to "lock" a thread to prevent replies being made once things get out of hand?

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Re: Women's In-Tournament Training

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:46 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Gary Cook wrote:, be it the woman's boards in county chess and at 4NCL
Gary
To be factual about it, there is no woman's board requirement in County Chess. There was a proposal once , that there should be, or that female presence should influence a tie break in your favour. As far as I am aware, there was no support and it was dropped.

There is no female board requirement in the 4NCL and never has been. All that was required is at least one male and at least one female player. Provided that a single female player has a rating not more than 80 points below the lowest rated player, she can play on as high a board as the 80 point rule and the team's requirements permit.
What other events require a woman to be on the team? The 4NCL and the Varsity Match are the only ones I can think of right now. Do any other national leagues require a woman player on the team?

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Re: Women's In-Tournament Training

Post by Alan Kennedy » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:50 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Carl Hibbard wrote:
Maria Yurenok wrote:It's been all downhill since then and I think the best option for this thread would be for you to stop pursuing that conversation with Sabrina as it doesn't seem to be leading anywhere good.
As I have pointed out more than once both in public and private :roll:
Would it be possible to put a warning note on threads like this? Ideally, I should have read the whole way through before posting replies that with hindsight I now see might stir up old emotions, and I'm regretting some of the posts I've made. Is there no way to "lock" a thread to prevent replies being made once things get out of hand?
I am not sure - I hear rumours that some chess players have stopped watching Eastenders and are now looking to this thread for their excitement :D

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Women's In-Tournament Training

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:56 am

Alan Kennedy wrote:I am not sure - I hear rumours that some chess players have stopped watching Eastenders and are now looking to this thread for their excitement :D
:lol: Well, this thread is done. I'm pondering whether to read the ECF funding thread or not. Maybe another time when I am having trouble sleeping...

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Women's In-Tournament Training

Post by Carl Hibbard » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:57 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:Is there no way to "lock" a thread to prevent replies being made once things get out of hand?
Yes but I do try to avoid that one at all costs if I can
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

Richard Bates
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Re: Women's In-Tournament Training

Post by Richard Bates » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:00 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Would it be possible to put a warning note on threads like this? Ideally, I should have read the whole way through before posting replies that with hindsight I now see might stir up old emotions, and I'm regretting some of the posts I've made. Is there no way to "lock" a thread to prevent replies being made once things get out of hand?
A decent rule of thumb is to not bother making contributions to posts more than a couple of pages old. With the possible exception of any threads of debate (within the thread!) in which you were previously directly involved. It's best not to respond to posts unless you have read everything which has subsequently been said.

*if you are regretting posts you have made just go back and 'delete' them.

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Re: Women's In-Tournament Training

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:01 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: Do any other national leagues require a woman player on the team?
Exclusively female National leagues are relatively common in Continental Europe. The 4NCL as a relative newcomer in 1993 elected to go the mixed route. I think Turkey have followed this but with bells on, their teams require representation from various junior age groups as well.

There is a European Club Cup for women as well. It's a bit difficult for English teams to enter this in the absence of any teams or clubs exclusively for women. I remember one English organiser putting a scratch team to enter this once. Essentially he used players who had featured for different teams in the 4NCL.

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Re: Women's In-Tournament Training

Post by Alex Holowczak » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:44 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:Ideally, I should have read the whole way through before posting replies
To be honest, you should do anyway regardless of the subject matter.

LozCooper

Re: Women's In-Tournament Training

Post by LozCooper » Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:44 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Carl Hibbard wrote:
Maria Yurenok wrote:It's been all downhill since then and I think the best option for this thread would be for you to stop pursuing that conversation with Sabrina as it doesn't seem to be leading anywhere good.
As I have pointed out more than once both in public and private :roll:
Would it be possible to put a warning note on threads like this? Ideally, I should have read the whole way through before posting replies that with hindsight I now see might stir up old emotions, and I'm regretting some of the posts I've made. Is there no way to "lock" a thread to prevent replies being made once things get out of hand?
Ideally, people would have stuck to the subject matter and said how positive the idea of training was and offered their support to two talented coaches whilst parents would have had an opportunity to offer their input. Sadly this was not the case.

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Re: Women's In-Tournament Training

Post by John Moore » Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:58 pm

One post I can agree with, Loz!! Sadly, forums (if Mr Spivack tells me it's fora, I shall despair!) tend to go this way when you have an argument that runs.

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