So what?Nick Burrows wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:52 pmOf course such accusations should be seriously investigated, however I think it's worth noting that the accuser has a history of clashes with Nigel Short dating to 2015 when Nigel wrote his controversial article about women in chess and she accused him of being sexist.
Chess and sexual harassment
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022
There were allegations posted on Facebook by a male poster as well. Thing is that nobody here knows whether the allegations are true or not, but several people are seeking to undermine the credibility of the person making the allegations and that's right out of a play-book that nobody with genuine concern should be using in these circumstances. And there has been quite enough coverage of how sexual assault cases are handled that its difficult to see posters pleading ignorance.Nick Burrows wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:52 pmOf course such accusations should be seriously investigated, however I think it's worth noting that the accuser has a history of clashes with Nigel Short dating to 2015 when Nigel wrote his controversial article about women in chess and she accused him of being sexist.
I'd happy to see these posts moved, but I suspect Carl might be uncomfortable with having to moderate a thread labelled 'sexual misconduct and Nigel Short' or similar.
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022
Quite soJ T Melsom wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:03 pmseveral people are seeking to undermine the credibility of the person making the allegations and that's right out of a play-book that nobody with genuine concern should be using in these circumstances.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022
I think that the ECF should put their trust in Aga Milewska to continue to build on the work of Chris Fegan. If Aga thinks that it is worth her talking to Ananda Ross, then that would be her decision.Angus French wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:59 pmIf the ECF is serious about its target of 15% female membership then Amanda is someone they should be talking to.
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022
I'm not trying to undermine the accusation - as I said, it should be seriously investigated. But I also believe that an existing spat between the two individuals should at least be be acknowledged.JustinHorton wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:05 pmQuite soJ T Melsom wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:03 pmseveral people are seeking to undermine the credibility of the person making the allegations and that's right out of a play-book that nobody with genuine concern should be using in these circumstances.
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022
Are you sure about building on the work of Chris Fegan? I think the 15% female membership target was introduced when Chris was Director of Women's chess. Certainly it existed for several years while he was in position and he wasn't anywhere close to achieving it. I can't see that any progress has been made while Aga has been Director of Women's Chess (her focus seems to be on running events for the top female players rather than building grass roots support). Sorry for the digression.David Sedgwick wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:21 pmI think that the ECF should put their trust in Aga Milewska to continue to build on the work of Chris Fegan. If Aga thinks that it is worth her talking to Ananda Ross, then that would be her decision.Angus French wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:59 pmIf the ECF is serious about its target of 15% female membership then Amanda is someone they should be talking to.
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022
If other people have come forward to make similar allegations, or to corroborate those made by Ms Ross, then certainly they should be investigated,J T Melsom wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:03 pmThere were allegations posted on Facebook by a male poster as well. Thing is that nobody here knows whether the allegations are true or not, but several people are seeking to undermine the credibility of the person making the allegations and that's right out of a play-book that nobody with genuine concern should be using in these circumstances. And there has been quite enough coverage of how sexual assault cases are handled that its difficult to see posters pleading ignorance.
If the only evidence is what Ms Ross says third parties told her four years ago, then I remain cautious.
As to how credible she was when she appeared before the ECF Council, then, to quote a well known statement, recollections may vary. Obviously that was in a totally different context.
What is not in doubt is that Council voted against giving her the grant which she had requested.
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022
I won't digress further, but yes I am sure.Angus French wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:31 pmAre you sure about building on the work of Chris Fegan? I think the 15% female membership target was introduced when Chris was Director of Women's Chess. Certainly it existed for several years while he was in position and he wasn't anywhere close to achieving it. I can't see that any progress has been made while Aga has been Director of Women's Chess (her focus seems to be on running events for the top female players rather than building grass roots support). Sorry for the digression.
Recollections may vary and opinions may differ.
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022
People are lining up to attack the credibility and motives of Amanda Ross. Why? Isn't this behaviour one of the major reasons that sexual offences are under-reported in society? Do posters think they are making it easier for victims to come forward?
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022
Right, but there's caution, and there's not replying to the report, isn't there?David Sedgwick wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:32 pmIf the only evidence is what Ms Ross says third parties told her four years ago, then I remain cautious.
Right, but a woman complaining about rank sexism isn't "a spat between individuals", is it?Nick Burrows wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:29 pmBut I also believe that an existing spat between the two individuals should at least be be acknowledged.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022
Why should allegations between one adult and another adult be anything to do with the ECF?JustinHorton wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:46 pmRight, but there's caution, and there's not replying to the report, isn't there?
Either report it to the police or publish potentially libellous statements in your own media and see whether they are challenged.
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022
I believe it’s been suggested directly to Mrs Ross and openly on the British Chess Facebook page that a good person to refer reports (anonymous or otherwise) of sexual harassment by Nigel Short would be Aga Milewska at [email protected] I note there’s one other 3rd party allegation not related to Amanda Ross on the Facebook page, that Short offered to pay a female chess player for sex. If an avenue for communication to the ECF can be established there may well be a number of separate accounts forthcoming.
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022
Doesn’t it potentially impact safe guarding, or at the least whether he’s invited to represent England in high profile senior events?Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:59 pmWhy should allegations between one adult and another adult be anything to do with the ECF?JustinHorton wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:46 pmRight, but there's caution, and there's not replying to the report, isn't there?
Either report it to the police or publish potentially libellous statements in your own media and see whether they are challenged.
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022
I thought "safeguarding" only applied to juniors and "vulnerable" adults. But if it's true, just publish it, but not where someone else is in line for the libel complaint. In other words, not here and probably not on John Upham's site either.Matt Bridgeman wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:03 pmDoesn’t it potentially impact safe guarding, or at the least whether he’s invited to represent England in high profile senior events?
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022
I believe the gentleman concerned was standing for office and seeking support from the named organisation.Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:59 pmWhy should allegations between one adult and another adult be anything to do with the ECF?
Also, while I am not familiar with the detail of the accusations, it is possible that some of the alleged behaviour may have taken place while acting as a representative of the organisation, or attending its events.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com