Chess and sexual harassment

Discuss anything you like about women's chess at home and abroad.
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JustinHorton
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

Post by JustinHorton » Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:00 pm

Nick Burrows wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:52 pm
Of course such accusations should be seriously investigated, however I think it's worth noting that the accuser has a history of clashes with Nigel Short dating to 2015 when Nigel wrote his controversial article about women in chess and she accused him of being sexist.
So what?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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J T Melsom
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

Post by J T Melsom » Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:03 pm

Nick Burrows wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:52 pm
Of course such accusations should be seriously investigated, however I think it's worth noting that the accuser has a history of clashes with Nigel Short dating to 2015 when Nigel wrote his controversial article about women in chess and she accused him of being sexist.
There were allegations posted on Facebook by a male poster as well. Thing is that nobody here knows whether the allegations are true or not, but several people are seeking to undermine the credibility of the person making the allegations and that's right out of a play-book that nobody with genuine concern should be using in these circumstances. And there has been quite enough coverage of how sexual assault cases are handled that its difficult to see posters pleading ignorance.

I'd happy to see these posts moved, but I suspect Carl might be uncomfortable with having to moderate a thread labelled 'sexual misconduct and Nigel Short' or similar.

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JustinHorton
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

Post by JustinHorton » Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:05 pm

J T Melsom wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:03 pm
several people are seeking to undermine the credibility of the person making the allegations and that's right out of a play-book that nobody with genuine concern should be using in these circumstances.
Quite so
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

David Sedgwick
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

Post by David Sedgwick » Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:21 pm

Angus French wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:59 pm
If the ECF is serious about its target of 15% female membership then Amanda is someone they should be talking to.
I think that the ECF should put their trust in Aga Milewska to continue to build on the work of Chris Fegan. If Aga thinks that it is worth her talking to Ananda Ross, then that would be her decision.

Nick Burrows
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

Post by Nick Burrows » Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:29 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:05 pm
J T Melsom wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:03 pm
several people are seeking to undermine the credibility of the person making the allegations and that's right out of a play-book that nobody with genuine concern should be using in these circumstances.
Quite so
I'm not trying to undermine the accusation - as I said, it should be seriously investigated. But I also believe that an existing spat between the two individuals should at least be be acknowledged.

Angus French
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

Post by Angus French » Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:31 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:21 pm
Angus French wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:59 pm
If the ECF is serious about its target of 15% female membership then Amanda is someone they should be talking to.
I think that the ECF should put their trust in Aga Milewska to continue to build on the work of Chris Fegan. If Aga thinks that it is worth her talking to Ananda Ross, then that would be her decision.
Are you sure about building on the work of Chris Fegan? I think the 15% female membership target was introduced when Chris was Director of Women's chess. Certainly it existed for several years while he was in position and he wasn't anywhere close to achieving it. I can't see that any progress has been made while Aga has been Director of Women's Chess (her focus seems to be on running events for the top female players rather than building grass roots support). Sorry for the digression.

David Sedgwick
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

Post by David Sedgwick » Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:32 pm

J T Melsom wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:03 pm
There were allegations posted on Facebook by a male poster as well. Thing is that nobody here knows whether the allegations are true or not, but several people are seeking to undermine the credibility of the person making the allegations and that's right out of a play-book that nobody with genuine concern should be using in these circumstances. And there has been quite enough coverage of how sexual assault cases are handled that its difficult to see posters pleading ignorance.
If other people have come forward to make similar allegations, or to corroborate those made by Ms Ross, then certainly they should be investigated,

If the only evidence is what Ms Ross says third parties told her four years ago, then I remain cautious.

As to how credible she was when she appeared before the ECF Council, then, to quote a well known statement, recollections may vary. Obviously that was in a totally different context.

What is not in doubt is that Council voted against giving her the grant which she had requested.

David Sedgwick
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

Post by David Sedgwick » Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:37 pm

Angus French wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:31 pm
Are you sure about building on the work of Chris Fegan? I think the 15% female membership target was introduced when Chris was Director of Women's Chess. Certainly it existed for several years while he was in position and he wasn't anywhere close to achieving it. I can't see that any progress has been made while Aga has been Director of Women's Chess (her focus seems to be on running events for the top female players rather than building grass roots support). Sorry for the digression.
I won't digress further, but yes I am sure.

Recollections may vary and opinions may differ.

J T Melsom
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

Post by J T Melsom » Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:40 pm

People are lining up to attack the credibility and motives of Amanda Ross. Why? Isn't this behaviour one of the major reasons that sexual offences are under-reported in society? Do posters think they are making it easier for victims to come forward?

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JustinHorton
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

Post by JustinHorton » Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:46 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:32 pm
If the only evidence is what Ms Ross says third parties told her four years ago, then I remain cautious.
Right, but there's caution, and there's not replying to the report, isn't there?
Nick Burrows wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:29 pm
But I also believe that an existing spat between the two individuals should at least be be acknowledged.
Right, but a woman complaining about rank sexism isn't "a spat between individuals", is it?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Roger de Coverly
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:59 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:46 pm
Right, but there's caution, and there's not replying to the report, isn't there?
Why should allegations between one adult and another adult be anything to do with the ECF?

Either report it to the police or publish potentially libellous statements in your own media and see whether they are challenged.

Matt Bridgeman
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:01 pm

I believe it’s been suggested directly to Mrs Ross and openly on the British Chess Facebook page that a good person to refer reports (anonymous or otherwise) of sexual harassment by Nigel Short would be Aga Milewska at [email protected] I note there’s one other 3rd party allegation not related to Amanda Ross on the Facebook page, that Short offered to pay a female chess player for sex. If an avenue for communication to the ECF can be established there may well be a number of separate accounts forthcoming.

Matt Bridgeman
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:03 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:59 pm
JustinHorton wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:46 pm
Right, but there's caution, and there's not replying to the report, isn't there?
Why should allegations between one adult and another adult be anything to do with the ECF?

Either report it to the police or publish potentially libellous statements in your own media and see whether they are challenged.
Doesn’t it potentially impact safe guarding, or at the least whether he’s invited to represent England in high profile senior events?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:08 pm

Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:03 pm
Doesn’t it potentially impact safe guarding, or at the least whether he’s invited to represent England in high profile senior events?
I thought "safeguarding" only applied to juniors and "vulnerable" adults. But if it's true, just publish it, but not where someone else is in line for the libel complaint. In other words, not here and probably not on John Upham's site either.

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JustinHorton
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Re: 44th Olympiad, Chennai 28 July to 10 August 2022

Post by JustinHorton » Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:13 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:59 pm
Why should allegations between one adult and another adult be anything to do with the ECF?
I believe the gentleman concerned was standing for office and seeking support from the named organisation.

Also, while I am not familiar with the detail of the accusations, it is possible that some of the alleged behaviour may have taken place while acting as a representative of the organisation, or attending its events.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com