Sexism in chess

Discuss anything you like about women's chess at home and abroad.
Joseph Conlon
Posts: 339
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:18 pm

Re: Sexism in chess

Post by Joseph Conlon » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:29 pm

>>Is there a name for this custom of men discussing matters that primarily concern women?

Most but not all junior chess organisers are men. If they think it would be nice to have more girls entering events and then returning (and I think most do), it makes sense to think (and discuss) about how to structure events in a way that makes him them attractive and enjoyable to young girls coming along to play in a tournament.

IMO, the article is not that impressive in its logic (in another world I am involved in as a parent, of competitive dance, you could have the same discussion on ratios in reverse, but I doubt the Guardian would frame it in the same way). As a general observer of the world, it is also reasonable to observe that the likelihood of e.g. sexual harassment is probably (much) larger in film or theatre than chess, but despite that gender ratios are much more balanced there.

Nick Burrows
Posts: 1704
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:15 pm

Re: Sexism in chess

Post by Nick Burrows » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:36 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:50 pm
Well no, but that would be true of almost any formal or informal survey of opinion, no?
To my knowledge there has been no survey of opinion of any kind on this topic. Many women in chess have experienced sexism (as they do in all male dominated areas of life) - do you think we should extrapolate that this is evidently the reason that females stop playing?

User avatar
JustinHorton
Posts: 10364
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Somewhere you're not

Re: Sexism in chess

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:58 pm

I think we should be giving quite a high priority to the experiences of women and girls.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

User avatar
MJMcCready
Posts: 3140
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm

Re: Sexism in chess

Post by MJMcCready » Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:41 pm

Nick Burrows wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:40 pm
JustinHorton wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:29 pm
Is this the explanation the women and girls give though
We don't know, because the vast majority are not asked. It's also more likely that we will hear about cases where there is a genuine grievance.
That might be that chess players are, on the whole, not young athletic and handsome enough for them!

Helen Milligan
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:01 pm

Re: Sexism in chess

Post by Helen Milligan » Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:05 pm

Hmmm is it allowed for an actual female to comment on this thread?!
I've heard that 'more girls give up' line trotted out a lot. What is never mentioned is that an awful lot of boys give up too. You just don't notice, unless the kid was one of the really outstanding ones. I've had students give up chess in order to pursue golf, e-sports, music, etc etc.
I've also heard that 'girls just don't like it' line too. Also not true. OK this is anecdote not data BUT I have several times been asked to coach a boy 'and can his sister come too' only to find the girl is better and more interested - but all the support, in terms of payment for lessons and books and trips to events, is for the boy. (What happens to strong girls without brothers I wonder?!). I have kids as young as 7 already spouting rubbish about not wanting to lose to a girl. They are learning this stuff at home and at school. Not in chess classes.
I could go on. Interminably!

User avatar
MJMcCready
Posts: 3140
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm

Re: Sexism in chess

Post by MJMcCready » Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:47 am

It's always been a man's world. From time to time we had female players at our club and they often got funny looks by members, as if they didn't belong there or something. If more women made it to the very top, I think that would inspire a lot of girls. Whether they would stick at it I don't know. In some countries there seems to be a much greater balance than in England.

User avatar
Matt Mackenzie
Posts: 5191
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:51 pm
Location: Millom, Cumbria

Re: Sexism in chess

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:42 pm

And even here its probably a *bit* better than it used to be, though yes progress is achingly slow.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Matt Bridgeman
Posts: 1077
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:21 pm

Re: Sexism in chess

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:22 pm

There certainly seems to be a sizable group of junior girls moving up and staying the course from the U12 to U16 age groups in England. I would think in 5 years a lot of these players will be titled and will provide some decent depth to English woman's chess. It's perhaps in response to this I'm starting to see some unique events popping up now - for example a woman's norm event scheduled in April. I don't recall seeing one of those in England before, although I'm sure there must have been?

NickFaulks
Posts: 8452
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Sexism in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:03 pm

Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:22 pm
for example a woman's norm event scheduled in April.
That sounds good to me, but I hope they are prepared for criticism that such events are themselves sexist.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

User avatar
IM Jack Rudd
Posts: 4815
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:13 am
Location: Bideford
Contact:

Re: Sexism in chess

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:16 pm

Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:22 pm
There certainly seems to be a sizable group of junior girls moving up and staying the course from the U12 to U16 age groups in England. I would think in 5 years a lot of these players will be titled and will provide some decent depth to English woman's chess. It's perhaps in response to this I'm starting to see some unique events popping up now - for example a woman's norm event scheduled in April. I don't recall seeing one of those in England before, although I'm sure there must have been?
There have been, yes - Lawrence Cooper organized a few at the London Chess Classic over the years.

LawrenceCooper
Posts: 7167
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:13 am

Re: Sexism in chess

Post by LawrenceCooper » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:22 pm

Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:22 pm
There certainly seems to be a sizable group of junior girls moving up and staying the course from the U12 to U16 age groups in England. I would think in 5 years a lot of these players will be titled and will provide some decent depth to English woman's chess. It's perhaps in response to this I'm starting to see some unique events popping up now - for example a woman's norm event scheduled in April. I don't recall seeing one of those in England before, although I'm sure there must have been?
London Chess Classic Women's International 2009: http://www.londonchessclassic.com/2009/ ... tional.htm

e2e4.org.uk Uxbridge Womens's International 2010: https://ratings.fide.com/report.phtml?event=52532

London Chess Classic Women's International 2010: http://www.londonchessclassic.com/2010/ ... tional.htm
https://ratings.fide.com/report.phtml?event=55172

London Chess Classic Women's International 2011: https://ratings.fide.com/tournament_rep ... nt16=63579

London Chess Classic Women's International 2012: https://ratings.fide.com/report.phtml?event=71133

London Chess Classic Women's International 2013: https://ratings.fide.com/report.phtml?event=85828

Kevin Thurlow
Posts: 5802
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: Sexism in chess

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:23 am

"There have been, yes - Lawrence Cooper organized a few at the London Chess Classic over the years."

More than a few then!

User avatar
Matt Mackenzie
Posts: 5191
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:51 pm
Location: Millom, Cumbria

Re: Sexism in chess

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:06 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:03 pm
Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:22 pm
for example a woman's norm event scheduled in April.
That sounds good to me, but I hope they are prepared for criticism that such events are themselves sexist.
There are those (including some women) who do indeed argue that.

However, the best judge of this should be female chess players themselves - and it would appear most of them still see a need for such events.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Matt Bridgeman
Posts: 1077
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:21 pm

Re: Sexism in chess

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:31 pm

I think ironically it seems much more likely England could have a internationally competitive Woman’s team than an Open team in ten years time, if people behind the scenes keep coming up with these imaginative development opportunities, like stringing woman’s norm events together when the players are ready and the timing is right.

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 21291
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: Sexism in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:10 pm

Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:31 pm
I think ironically it seems much more likely England could have a internationally competitive Woman’s team than an Open team in ten years time,
At Pula in 1997, The English Women's team in the Euros was third. That was a three player squad, two playing in each match. The squad was Susan Lalic, Harriet Hunt and Ruth Sheldon. They repeated that feat at Leon in 2001 with Harriet on 1, Jovanka Houska 2 and Susan 3

The Open team did well also, winners in 1997,with a team of Short, Adams, Speelman, Sadler, Hodgson. In 2001 at Leon they were fourth with a team of Adams, Short, Speelman, Conquest and McShane.

Ten years later at Porto Carras, Greece, the open team (Adams, Short, Howell, Jones, Pert) was down at 22 (out of 38), whilst the Women's team ( Houska, Ciukskte, Yurenok, Bhatia, Hegarty) was also well down the order at 23 from 28.

Post Reply